And Now For Something Completely Different But Very Cool And $$$

[Ty]

Well if that is where your definition of "safe" floats, then that is fine by me. With the exception of some poorly designed models, I would consider most motorcycles to be "safe" vehicles.

On a side note, I would be interested to know what percentage of gyroplane failures are due to Power Push-Over or Pilot-Induced Oscillation. From my research these are the most common causes of failure, but both can be mitigated through smart design and pilot training. I'd be willing to speculate that rotors fall off of home-built gyros about as often as wings fall off of home-built planes.

As a long time motorcycle rider, I can tell you there isn't much safe about a motorcycle. Anything where a 1mph crash can break your leg isn't safe. Nope. Safe, in regards to vehicles

ADJECTIVE

1. protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.
   
   
2. uninjured; with no harm done.

A motorcycle does NOT meet either definition here regardless of what I tell my wife.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Well if that is where your definition of "safe" floats, then that is fine by me. With the exception of some poorly designed models, I would consider most motorcycles to be "safe" vehicles.

 

[Sethodine]

As a long time motorcycle rider, I can tell you there isn't much safe about a motorcycle. Anything where a 1mph crash can break your leg isn't safe. Nope. Safe, in regards to vehicles

ADJECTIVE

1. protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.
   
   
2. uninjured; with no harm done.

A motorcycle does NOT meet either definition here regardless of what I tell my wife.

By this ridgid definition, ALL cars and ALL aircraft are inherently unsafe. If you decide to put yourself or your loved ones in a car, you are signing their death warrant. You murderer. How dare you expose them to the risk of harm?

Or maybe, there is a personal variable called "acceptable level of risk" that we each choose based on the perceived advantages and rewards. Thus, the definition of "safe" is actually "provides a reasonable reduction in the chance of harm, compared to the desired outcome", where the definition of "reasonable" is based in personal opinion.

Then we invented governmental product safety boards to invent safety guidelines, so that stupid people wouldn't kill themselves as often. Being stupid is still the highest killer in automobile deaths--95% of fatalities are caused by user-error due to Speed, Alcohol, or Distracted Driving (in that order). We would have outlawed General Aviation a long time ago if participating in it met the same government-dictated threshold for "stupidity" as drunk driving.

 

[Frim]

The Vapor Carb is a persistent myth. No one can show one working (those annoying laws of physics get in the way).
So there is always a story of one that worked that was destroyed by mean bad types. My uncle built one and got 195 mpg with his 1958 Buick Roadmaster but black helicopters came and they took it away.

Those black helicopters that can lift a 1958 Buick Roadmaster are really out there somewhere.

 

[Frim]

I'm not sure that was the quote. I seem to remember that it was more like, "You can't trust everything you read on the internet."

He said it wasn't reliable.

 

[Sethodine]

"...This gives a fatal gyroplane accident rate of 27.1 per 100,000 hours flown. This compares unfavourably with just 2 fatal accidents per 100,000 hours flown by microlights and 1.1 fatal accidents per 100,000 hours for light fixed wing general aviation aircraft. The fact that the fatal gyroplane accident rate is more than 13 times greater than that for similar weight microlight aircraft raises serious concern about the design of gyroplanes and the training of gyroplane pilots."

The quote from the report shows exactly the point I was trying to make about PPO/PIO.
My original statement was about the design of the aircraft ("Gyroplanes are safer than Fixed Wings"). But looking at fatality rates gives you a statement of safety that encompasses both design and operator error.

Example: lets look at two hypothetical machines.
Machine A has a fatality rate of 10 out of 100 operators in any given time frame.
Machine B has a fatality rate of 5 our of 100 operators in the same time frame.
Thus, Machine B is objectively "more safe" from a fatality-rate perspective.

But lets say that,
90% of Machine A fatalities are caused by operator error, while
20% of Machine B fatalities are caused by operator error.
This means that 1 out of 100 operators of Machine A die from non-operator error causes (machine design, etc)
While 4 out of 100 operators of Machine B die from non-operator errors.
Thus, for a properly trained individual, Machine A will be more safe than Machine B, despite Machine A having the higher fatality rate.

This is the problem with statistics; it is very difficult to puzzle out the root cause of any particular trend without getting a lot of information, which is why statistics from different sources have such widely varying numbers. Thus, we are forced to rely on anecdotes based on individual cases, and the anecdotal evidence suggests that gyro failures are much more prone to operator error (particularly due to operators who have fixed-wing instincts).

But I will admit that my assertion is flawed, in that I have no hard data to back it up. Hence, it is an opinion based on anecdote.

Hooray for internet opinions.

 

[Muzhik]

I'm sorry, I don't get the gif. Who is that and why is this gif relevant?

 

[Muzhik]

I compare gyrocopters with motor cycles. Yes, they can be safe if everything goes right, but that's not how the world works. Even if the vehicle is perfect everyday, sooner or later, the operator is not at the top of his/her game. As most car accidents you can walk away from, most motorcycle accidents can't say the same.

Which is why I think it should be a law, at least in my state, that any fatality in a motorcycle accident where the dead person wasn't wearing a helmet constitutes implied consent to have his/her organs used for donation.

 

[Sethodine]

I'm sorry, I don't get the gif. Who is that and why is this gif relevant?

The gif is meant to say that he was making that face at my statement. He was passive-aggressively calling me an idiot.

 

[Mel]

Which is why I think it should be a law, at least in my state, that any fatality in a motorcycle accident where the dead person wasn't wearing a helmet constitutes implied consent to have his/her organs used for donation.

In my humble opinion, a person who rides a motorcycle without a helmet doesn't have anything to protect.