True, those are all excellent choices! Some of us though aren't so blessed with mechanical apptitude or the $$ for the tools for the skill you have. Wish I did! So due to the lack of the aforementioned I have to go with the old saying, "Spend as much as you can afford to get the best you can." In my admittedly limited experience, Honda is that machine (as far as scooters go and they don't make bad cars either!). So until I either get the apptitude for working on mechanical items (that's not real likely) and then get the tools (that's not likely either, I would get tools to last and they cost $$$) and space to work on it (not possible in my present and possible future) I will just have to spend my $$ as wisely as I can to make the money I have go as far as I can, spending less doesn't always save you money. I do know that from experience.
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Lil4X
Elio Addict
A friend on another forum bought a used Chinese scooter (almost a motorcycle) with a 200cc engine, automatic transmission and motorcycle-like styling just because it was a deal he couldn't pass up. His wife fell in love with it, and in order to ride with her, he bought one of his own. It seems that the used market is pretty low for these little bikes, so it was smart for him to buy the "el cheapo" ride rather than idle around after his wife on his big-boy Harley.
Within six months the engine on her bike turned itself into an anvil. OK, Mr. Experienced Motorcycle Mechanic, fix it. He tore into the corpse and discovered quickly that the Chinese engine was never meant to be be serviced - being constructed primarily of pot metal. A whole new engine was something like $250. The Chinese use a similar business model for their chain saws and other motorized tools. Got a problem, buy a new engine and bolt it up. Dixie Cup. Use it, toss it. Well, it's not too elegant, but it works. It would probably be a good idea to buy a spare and set it aside in the garage, the supply chain being pretty iffy. Then don't ride too far from home.
Within six months the engine on her bike turned itself into an anvil. OK, Mr. Experienced Motorcycle Mechanic, fix it. He tore into the corpse and discovered quickly that the Chinese engine was never meant to be be serviced - being constructed primarily of pot metal. A whole new engine was something like $250. The Chinese use a similar business model for their chain saws and other motorized tools. Got a problem, buy a new engine and bolt it up. Dixie Cup. Use it, toss it. Well, it's not too elegant, but it works. It would probably be a good idea to buy a spare and set it aside in the garage, the supply chain being pretty iffy. Then don't ride too far from home.
Ekh
Elio Addict
It's not a matter of patents. It's a matter of trademarks, and, more important, brand identity and awareness. Elio is doing quite a good job of establishing this even before producing car #1. That's what the tour is for, along with the social media campaign ... like the car itself, these are low-cost forms of building awareness not of a concept, but of a specific thing: the Elio Motors vehicle.
I don't think you'll see a Ford "Felio" or something of the like. As others have said, the big three don't like selling low-end cars; they prefer the fatter margins of the SUVs, partly because of the dealer structure they have to support and the costs that go with it.
If Paul Elio can break through that wall, using the "motorcycle" designation to avoid state laws requiring that autos be sold through dealerships, it's worth risking people saying "motorcycle" instead of "car" ("autocycle" doesn't really cut it, IMO, even though it's accurate). And that is a pretty substantial risk, hence the stress on safety.
I'm beginning to appreciate just how smart Paul Elio really is.
I don't think you'll see a Ford "Felio" or something of the like. As others have said, the big three don't like selling low-end cars; they prefer the fatter margins of the SUVs, partly because of the dealer structure they have to support and the costs that go with it.
If Paul Elio can break through that wall, using the "motorcycle" designation to avoid state laws requiring that autos be sold through dealerships, it's worth risking people saying "motorcycle" instead of "car" ("autocycle" doesn't really cut it, IMO, even though it's accurate). And that is a pretty substantial risk, hence the stress on safety.
I'm beginning to appreciate just how smart Paul Elio really is.
I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse here, (well, maybe a little), but I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say. What's the 'moral' of the story as it were? Is it that the Harley was a big waste of money 'cause it turned out not to be the bike he needed? Obviously he really needed a pair of cheaper bikes to enjoy with his wife rather than the big expensive one. Is it that for a price he "couldn't pass up", he ran the bike for six months and now has to put in a new engine that costs the same as one Harley payment? Or are you trying to point out that despite having problems with one bike the other is doing fine? Or, how about my favorite take on the story; I have FAR more respect for the guy who rides up on a Chinese bike he just swapped the motor in than I do for a guy who wrote a big check at the Harley dealer, no matter how good his penmanship is.
Just sayin'.....
I don't mean to come off argumentative at all, and I see we are just operating from different schools of thought, but I just wanted to offer a different perspective on a couple points. First, we live in an age where the mechanical knowlege of generations is available to anyone via internet, and you can find out how to do almost anything on youtube. A decent collection of tools is something you acquire over many years, and I don't think I have EVER bought a tool that didn't pay for itself many times over. A basic starting set of tools will EASILY pay for itself on one brake job, or a water pump, or a timing belt, etc... etc... And a shade-tree mechanic has no reason to buy expensive snap-on tools, or any other professional line. The Stanley line at Wally-World is fine for most of us, or Huskey from Home Depot, or if you want to up-scale a little, Craftsman are still decent, even though they're made in China now. It's ALL made in China. But they are all fine for the home garage. Just stay away from the REALLY cheap stuff, (I won't mention names, but you'll know it when you see it). And speaking of garages, I have fixed as much stuff on roadsides and in parking lots as I have in the garage. I've had a motorcycle in my living room more than once. Amature mechanics ain't for everyone, like when you're dropping the fuel tank in your buddy's truck to change the fuel pump in the parking lot where it coasted to, and it's raining fish and frogs you start to wonder about your own sanity. But when the job's done and your friend is headed home with the family, problem solved, chrisis averted, and he's gonna make it work tomorrow to fight off the cost of livin' another day, ya can't help but feel like a cold, wet million bucks. That ain't so bad.
Lil4X
Elio Addict
As I understood my friend's story, he bought the little Chinese bike for a few hundred dollars and after fixing a couple of cosmetic issues, it looked and performed like new with only 800 miles on the clock. With only about 8hp, driving through an AT, it was fine for putt-putting around the neighborhood - which was all his wife wanted to do anyway. He bought the second bike for even less than the first, and restored it primarily as a weekend project last winter when he wasn't in the wind on his Harley.
The discovery that the bikes were designed to be modular came when he tried to tear down that engine - an odd concept to a lifelong rider - but maybe understandable at that price point. After all, Timex did the same thing with inexpensive watches.
I guess my idea of expensive tools are a lot more modest than I thought! No, I don't think Snap-on was on my radar, more like Craftsman. Still, to build up the tool chest needed to work on vehicles will cost $$. And there is still the skill/knowledge/aptitude problem. But I do see more of what you have in mind for shade tree mechanic. As long as I would function as a mechanic on call for friends and family in distress but it's not permitted on the condo property except for emergency repair or unless it's in your garage on your own car, not on other's vehicles. And definitely not in our living room for 2 reasons, no room and my wife. But I have to agree, even if we had room. That's where I do my wood carving!! How could I have room to tear down _____ (fill in the blank)?! You are right about good stuff being made in China. I have a couple of ukuleles (Kala brand) that were made there and are really good instruments! And I'm sure a lot of other quality items are produced there, the problem being that these items are made for a foreign company and have to stick to precise and stringent requirements or lose the contract. The Chinese scooters in question fall outside this catagory, made without those stingent specs. So enjoy your working on them, but for me I need to buy quality products (yes, even Chinese if made correctly) in order make my money work as hard as possible.