Electra Meccanica (three Wheel Electric) Email-11/2/15

[Elio Amazed]

Rob...

Motorcycle endorsements - Yes
Helmet laws - Yes
Handle/steering bar vs. steering wheel - N/A
Seat belts - N/A
Air bags - N/A

 

[floydv]

And don't forget the bridge to CAFE credits (i.e. income stream) that EM is attempting to get through the autocycle pathway.

 

[Rickb]

I fully support the efforts of Autocycle Legislation on the State Level. I helped to assist that movement in my home State of Idaho,ho,ho. I contacted my State Senator 2 years ago to see if he would have interest in sponsoring and writing Autocycle Legislation. We had a long discussion about the Elio becoming the people's CAR and I indicated to him that he will witness swarms of Elios on the roadways in early 2016. He sponsored, wrote, and saw to it the Autocycle Bill was passed. I believed Paul Elio's initial production timeline, but after the delays I no longer believe everything EM says, but only what they do. I can't test drive an Elio and the Elio engineering specifications seem to change continually. Frankly, I'm embarrassed by talking up the Elio with the Idaho Senator, but the good news is that the autocycle legislation is in place and waiting on the Elio.

The Arcimoto SRK three wheeler EV motorcycle with it's handlebar steering does not meet the State's definition of autocycle.

Note: I prefer ElectraM's ($250) and Arcimoto's ($100) simple refundable reservation deposit, start small and scale business model and private funding to make it happen.

With that said this thread should be about ElectraM not EM. The Elio threads should be about EM not ElectraM. The EV three Wheelers and the ICElio are really not competitors and/or appealing to the same market demographics.

 

[Elio Amazed]

And don't forget the bridge to CAFE credits (i.e. income stream) that EM is attempting to get through the autocycle pathway.

Yep. you're right. I take it back. Elio Motors probably would like nothing more than to be an autocycle with CAFE to sell.
I still don't think it's going to be a federal autocycle though. But then, I'm not claiming to have an intact crystal ball either.

 

[Rob Croson]

Handle/steering bar vs. steering wheel - N/A

This is actually an important issue in some states. I understand that some states allow you to drive an enclosed three wheeler without an endorsement if it has a steering wheel. (FWIW my home state of Ohio is not one of these. We just require an enclosed cab, which I believe is defined as a roof.) A handle/steering bar wouldn't qualify, and require an endorsement. Another state regulatory quirk that could cause problems with wide-scale acceptance and volume sales. The autocycle legislation is an end-run to get around these isolated exceptions.

Seat belts - N/A
Air bags - N/A

This is a public perception of safety issue. Things with seat belts and air bags are simply safer than those without. If they are not included, then there is a serious liability issue. As soon as people start getting hurt in a three wheeler, and we all know that people are going to get hurt in traffic accidents, EM can't afford to have a safety stigma of being an unsafe vehicle.

 

[Elio Amazed]

You're well informed Rob. It makes it easier to talk about these things.

Seat belts and Air bags = Non-issue for vehicles other than the Elio then.
I don't see the liability issue unless someone (we won't say who) at one time claimed their vehicle to be 5-star safe.
As far as the SRK, Arcimoto will have to contend with the trade-off they created when they switched to handlebars and MC controls.

I'm not saying that a set of federal autocycle standards would necessarily be a bad thing, but I do believe that it could be if taken too far to the detriment of the entire three-wheeled industry. I believe the feds want no part of a new autocycle catagory at this point in history. As it is, it takes years, a lot of testing, research, paperwork and proof of the benefit of any change before the feds will even consider a small singular change to their regulations. Thankfully, the states have been more understanding and cooperative in the interest of public safety and convenience.

 

[Rob Croson]

I'm not saying that a set of federal autocycle standards would necessarily be a bad thing, but I do believe that it could be if taken too far to the detriment of the entire three-wheeled industry.

I agree with this. If three-wheelers are required to meet all the same regulations as four-wheeled vehicles, then the entire benefit of the three-wheeler disappears.

I believe the feds want no part of a new autocycle catagory at this point in history.

That is possible. It's not an issue upon which a politician can either grandstand or deliver on favors to contributors, so no incentive to do anything with it.

 

[DeltaMike]

That's not an accurate representation of S10.17 That's just an incomplete abbreviated table.

On most three-wheelers with wide headlamp configurations the height is not the issue.
You've got to read S10.17 to see the additional requirements that are relevant on these vehicles.

See ecfr.gov for official source of US CFRs including FMVSS. To find exemptions from CFRs, search the Federal Register. Most automakers, foreign and domestic, have made petitions which resulted in agency determinations of inconsequential noncompliance with some FMVSS. I found Morgan had such a determination on this headlight issue some years back. This is not the first rodeo for the engineers and management at Elio.

 

[Elio Amazed]

I did Mike. So far Morgan has been denied any exemption on those regulations.They applied and they were denied.
Did you find anything else on record that specifically concerned three-wheeled vehicle mfg? I think not.

 

[DeltaMike]

I did Mike. So far Morgan has been denied any exemption on those regulations.
Did you find anything else on record that specifically concerned three-wheeled vehicle mfg? I think not.

Not a generic exemption. Morgan had a inconsequential noncompliance determination. Very often a petitioner will reference an earlier IN determination in their petition. Morgan referenced a GM petition and determination tho it was not completely on point. It was about daylight running light systems on their cars that were in technical noncompliance. After reading in the Federal Register the many petitions and determinations I came to conclude this is a nonissue for EM even tho they may not have actually have petitioned at this point.