1. Welcome to Elio Owners! Join today, registration is easy!

    You can register using your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account, just click here.
  2. Hate the new look? Click Here to learn how to go back to the old one!

Electric Drive?

Discussion in 'Elio Drivetrain' started by John M Riley, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. Sethodine

    Sethodine Elio Addict

    Messages:
    1,647
    Likes Received:
    4,192
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Location:
    Mount Vernon, WA
    Short of wireless induction charging built into our public highways, an EVElio would never match the capabilities of the ICE Elio.

    That said, an EVElio would be a great alternative to some of the other EVs on the market, if used the same way those cars are used. I can see one with a much smaller battery than, say, a Nissan Leaf, still get the same range due to the same reasons that ICE Elio gets better MPGs than a typical coupe. My Leaf has a 24 kw/h battery that weighs about 1000lbs. The Chevy Spark EV gets the same range with only an 18 kw/h battery. I'd bet that a EVElio could get the same 80-100 mile range from a 10 kw/h battery @ about 240lbs.

    However, the main advantage of EV vs ICE is that EVs are sooo much cheaper to fuel. My Leaf only adds $25-$35 bucks a month onto my power bill. But since the ICE Elio already costs that much to fuel, I don't see the extra cost of an EV version as being a worthwhile investment.

    At least, not until I have my own house w/ solar panels. Having two EVs would make the expense of a home 30A charging station and solar panels more worthwhile.

    As you can see, this is a conversation I even have trouble resolving with myself, let alone with other people. :noidea:
     
    acamara likes this.
  2. slinches

    slinches Elio Addict

    Messages:
    968
    Likes Received:
    2,031
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    There's one problem with solar PV charging that I can't get past. My car is parked at work most days, so a solar charger would be useless at home and my employer is unlikely to install one for me (solar or otherwise) in the parking lot.

    I guess you could use two swappable batteries and have one charging while the other is in use, but that would more than double the cost of the battery system for the same performance/capacity (but likely near 2x longer life).
     
  3. Sethodine

    Sethodine Elio Addict

    Messages:
    1,647
    Likes Received:
    4,192
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Location:
    Mount Vernon, WA
    Typical solar systems are grid-connected, and merely act to offset your monthly power bill. Systems are cheap enough now (thanks to chinese solar panels) that you can finance a rooftop solar system with $0 down and still have a lower Panel Payment + Power Bill than your old Power bill. And once the panels are paid off, you're saving even more. So having a solar system wouldn't be for directly charging the car, but to offset the added expense of charging your car at night :)
     
    JEBar and Karnaj like this.
  4. BlioKart

    BlioKart Elio Addict

    Messages:
    1,055
    Likes Received:
    2,636
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    Tesla style skateboard for a Elio 2.0 EV redesign.
    Tesla_Model_S_skateboard.jpg
     
  5. Rob Croson

    Rob Croson Elio Addict

    Messages:
    1,384
    Likes Received:
    2,278
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Location:
    Ohio
    Reservation #:
    6272
    Electric motors tend to be much more efficient at higher speeds. The IAV article says they use induction motors. (Induction motors are also known as asynchronous motors.) Those have very high currents at lower speeds, especially when under load. You have to get them spinning up to a good speed before they get really efficient. Once there, you can vary the speed quite a bit, but you still need to keep the speed up to stay efficient. The advantage of induction motors is that they have a lot of torque at low speeds (essentially, the lower the motor speed, the more torque you can get out of it), but it takes a lot of current to do it.

    I know a lot about AC and DC motors (I was an electrician in the Navy), but I don't know a lot about electric cars. The IAV paper implies that most EVs use synchronous motors, which have significantly different power characteristics. Synchronous motors have much less low-speed torque than induction motors. The IAV paper implies that by using induction motors instead of synchronous motors, they can get a lot better torque. Makes sense to me. But again, I don't know a lot about EVs.
     
  6. slinches

    slinches Elio Addict

    Messages:
    968
    Likes Received:
    2,031
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    The grid isn't an infinite capacity battery. If everyone (or even worse, a lot of people but not most) hooks into it with solar PV systems that vary in production throughout the day and then plug in to charge their EV at night, the current predictable electric power demand cycle goes out the window. Grid balancing is a major issue now and will only get worse as PV systems start becoming more cost effective.

    I've made a habit of looking into solar PV systems about once a year and they're only cost effective right now if you either use a lot of electricity or live in high electric rate areas. Right now I'm only paying about $1200/year in electricity total, so even if the system eliminated my bill entirely, it likely wouldn't pay for itself in under 10 years.
     
    JEBar likes this.
  7. Tom Sleight

    Tom Sleight Elio Fan

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Location:
    Salt Lake
    My work placed six chargers in our lot for employees to charge their vehicles. This isn't a large company on 300 employees. If they offer an electric option I would be all over it. I know the cost would be increased but I want this for a commuter car.
     
  8. Coss

    Coss Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    9,954
    Likes Received:
    15,201
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Location:
    Battle Ground WA
    Do they charge the employees ($) that use them? If it's free, they should have free gas too, and public transit.
     
  9. Tom Sleight

    Tom Sleight Elio Fan

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Location:
    Salt Lake
    No they don't charge, its an incentive program our owner is pushing, and they have reward programs for people who use public transportation or drive vehicles that get in excess of 40 mph. My Slingshot does not qualify but my old Honda Shadow does.
     
    acamara, Karnaj, Coss and 1 other person like this.
  10. RUCRAYZE

    RUCRAYZE Elio Addict

    Messages:
    5,095
    Likes Received:
    8,729
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Location:
    On Vashon Island
    Reservation #:
    7013, $100.00 all-in, $100.00 Want-in, (Long after I'm gone I'll let the kids fight it out
    It appears charging stations are incorporated in some of new multi-unit complexes here - They are also open to the public, with $5.00/charge, seems counter-intiuitive.
    Free public locations are popping up around town
     
    Coss likes this.

Share This Page