Elgin Poll Reality Check

[Sethodine]

Are they not both trying to bring 3 wheeled high mileage commuters to market?

Nope. Elio is bring a 3-wheeled, high mileage, inexpensive commuter to market. Arcimoto is bring a 3 wheeled, mediocre mileage, low maintenance motorcycle to market.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Arcimoto has both a foot brake pedal and a hand brake lever.

 

[pistonboy]

If sales of the Elio are poor and the company is hurting, the elgin gauges will probably be changed to the traditional needle-on-dial type.

(I am not saying this is either good or bad.)

Just because it is great to us does not mean it will be seen that way by the general public.

Remember, it has been to 3 major auto shows and there was not the excitement nor rush of orders expected.

 

[ehwatt]

If sales of the Elio are poor and the company is hurting, the elgin gauges will probably be changed to the traditional needle-on-dial type.

(I am not saying this is either good or bad.)

Just because it is great to us does not mean it will be seen that way by the general public.

Remember, it has been to 3 major auto shows and there was not the excitement nor rush of orders expected.

Back in Greenwood, IN, I talked to 6 "Elio Virgins" and when I asked what they thought, they All seemed shell-shocked. To the man/woman they thought it looked Great and were going home and do some research. Three people came to me because of my Elioowners shirt who were aware of the Elio and were there to check it out. Finally, a FINE young man who drove from Fort Knox who had discovered the Elio a month before and while he was already sold, he was beside himself when he saw it.

I tell you when these little boogers hit the road, they will not be able to meet demand.

 

[Rob Croson]

Most of what you list is covered by "car-like" vs "bike-like". Beyond that....

That's really the heart of the issue. The Arcimoto is a motorcycle, and regulated as such. It will require a motorocycle endorsement, and in many states will require the operator to wear a helmet. In some states you will not be able to legally have a passenger in certain conditions. (Learner's permits, first year after getting your endorsement.) In some states, you will not legally be allowed to drive it on a highway while you have your learner's permit.

The Elio is, in >90% of the states, essentially regulated as a automobile that just happens to have a motorcycle plate. No endorsement. No helmet. No restricted driving conditions. Enclosed cab, heated, cooled, actual doors, familiar controls.

IMHO, Arcimoto's inability to be classified as an automobile or autocycle (or other such local substitute terminology) will severely hamper public acceptance. I, for example, cannot legally drive an Arcimoto. (Despite having owned a motorcycle for several years, I never bothered to actually get my endorsement. I just got a new learner's permit every year.) (And yes, I know that the people making the Arcimoto aren't worried about the endorsement/helmet issue. I just happen to think they're wrong.)

If you define market niche by asthetics (what it looks like), I suppose you're right. I define it by mission (what it's supposed to do). I mean really, who gives a crap if you twist a knob or push a pedal to go faster??

The people that make the laws give a crap. I think you'll find that their opinion matters.

 

[Marshall]

The people that make the laws give a crap. I think you'll find that their opinion matters.

It certainly does to THEM!

 

[Ty]

Okay... I was reading through this thread and read where someone said that they didn't even really notice the dash and I thought "I've seen the Elio twice in person and I don't remember anything about the dash either. I guess the Elgin hype is a bunch of hooey." THEN, I remembered I saw the P4 with the old Geo dash. OOPS. I guess that one didn't make much of an impression either. I'm typically a needle gauge dash advocate. I KNOW you can tell more from a quick glance. The same with clocks. However, I feel (who cares, right?) that the Elgin is spot-on in the Elio. It just looks like it belongs. I think if the Geo dash were left in, though it is obvious the more capable dash, it just makes the interior look... cheap somehow. The Elgin makes it kind of quirky or Elioish or something. Anyway, I don't think I'd much care for a standard, every-car-has-one dash. I'm going to like it, I'll bet. It gives all the info I need and I don't typically go down the road looking at my speed anyway (or the tach) I feel both. Now, there are certain black and white cars out there that make me look at my dash even if I KNOW I'm not speeding but that's neither here nor there.

I don't think they'll alienate many people in the market for an Elio. It's sort of like the guy looking for a Mustang. It isn't likely that he'll say "Nah, I don't like the dash. I'm going to go get a Camaro instead." I think people who are wanting an Elio will buy an Elio (with a very few outliers). I think most who don't like the Elgin dash won't even notice it's different after they've driven a little.

2 cents. Take it or leave it.

 

[AriLea]

.. . .
Remember, it has been to 3 major auto shows and there was not the excitement nor rush of orders expected.

I think to a degree the shock value is gone, many people who would be motivated that way are already aware of two things, the car and then also the discussion about the financing and start date. I don't think we'll see the bulk of motion toward reservations until the controversy is put to rest, and we will not see the full and real popularity until some true production cars are actually on the street. I mean not just the 100. Then things will wined-up very-very fast, and for a few months to a fevered pitch.

 

[Inigo93]

That's really the heart of the issue. The Arcimoto is a motorcycle, and regulated as such. It will require a motorocycle endorsement, and in many states will require the operator to wear a helmet. In some states you will not be able to legally have a passenger in certain conditions. (Learner's permits, first year after getting your endorsement.) In some states, you will not legally be allowed to drive it on a highway while you have your learner's permit.

Has that been established with the Arcimoto yet? I know in California the requirement for no motorcycle license is simply 3 wheels. For no helmet requires fully enclosed and over 1000 pounds. The enclosure is an option for the Arcimotor, but I've no idea what it weighs (and couldn't find a spec sheet in my brief glance just now).

I know other states have differed in the past, but I'm not sure what the laws have been updated to. I'd gotten the idea that California's law was the model for such, but confess I have nothing to back that up.

edit: Found a weight for the Gen8 arcimoto mule: 1023 pounds. Which means that with the optional enclosure, the Arcimoto would be legal to drive in California sans motorcycle endorsement and with no helmet. So here at least, I still maintain that the Elio and the Arcimoto would be competitors.

 

[Rob Croson]

Different states have different laws. I have seen where some states have restrictions based on the type of steering mechanism. If it's not a steering wheel, then you have to have an endorsement. In Ohio if you are not fully enclosed, you are not an "cab-enclosed motorcycle", and have to have an endorsement and a helmet.

The laws of the various states are widely varied. Here's a really wacky one base don the type of seat(!): For at least six months, you couldn't legally drive a Polaris Slingshot in Texas because it didn't have four wheels so it wasn't a car, and didn't have saddle-style seats so it wasn't a motorcycle.

IANAL, and all that jazz, so do your own research. I'm really only concerned about Ohio and the Elio. But what I do know is this: The farther you get from the norm of four wheels and a steering wheel (or two wheels and a saddle), the spottier and less clear the laws become. Look at what Elio went through just to drop one wheel. Now add in the fact that it's an open cab with a steering bar, and you've got a lot more potential problems.