For Those Who Think Ev Information Is Appropriate For An Elio Forum...

[johnsnownw]

I suggest that since you live in China, you need to take this up with them. As for here in the US, we don't have to worry about that. Only ones spending money on alternative energy has been shifted to the private sector which ends up being the private sector for non US corporations. Best thing is, we are safe here in the US as ICE is king.

I'm talking about California here. They are paying for 100% of H2 station costs, and awarding more ZEV credits to FCEVs than BEVs.

I have absolutely no issues with the private sector spending their own money, unfortunately they are not.

 

[RSchneider]

I'm talking about California here. They are paying for 100% of H2 station costs, and awarding more ZEV credits to FCEVs than BEVs.

I have absolutely no issues with the private sector spending their own money, unfortunately they are not.

The article referenced was a Chinese company buying fuel sells to use in their own company cars in China. I don't understand what that has to do with California and taxpayers.

 

[johnsnownw]

The article referenced was a Chinese company buying fuel sells to use in their own company cars in China. I don't understand what that has to do with California and taxpayers.

I was referencing hydrogen as a technology, and attempting to explain the disadvantages of using such a system...in China or anywhere else.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

"For Those Who Think Ev Information Is Appropriate For An Elio Forum..."

Indirectly, the EV argument might be relevant to the Elio argument.
The Electric Vehicle EV (primarily the Battery Electric Vehicle BEV) is the main competitor of the Elio when it comes to investment.

Everyone is chasing Tesla. End of story. The ONLY reason that Internal Combustion Engine manufacturers are panicking and making boneheaded decisions on long term design is due to the Tesla threat. Tesla is an Existential threat to the legacy manufacturers, the dealers, and the their way of life.

The BEV revolution is changing the seat of power and those in power and they are afraid.

As shown on Electrek.co over and over, it's not just the electrification of cars. Ships, buses, trucks, scooters, and even the infancy of EV air travel are going EV in massive numbers, trying and adopting (or discarding) industry changing technologies and strategies to First, make a profit, Second, save money, and Third, preserve the environment.

This is compounded by the revolution of Solar and Wind power with the force multiplier of battery banks (with are enhanced by the BEV explosion) that make renewable source based electricity viable, profitable, and economically Superior to conventional systems owned by legacy companies.

BEV's also allow and simple, low parts count vehicles that allow for vastly different designs and superior systems compared to any ICE vehicle in existence.

So why the Elio -vs- BEV comment?
Investment is always competitive and like cattle, investors will go for the latest fad.
The sexiest fad is the Tesla.
"The Tesla of Shipbuilders"
"The Tesla of Motorcycles"
"The Tesla of Box trucks"
"The Tesla of Airplanes"
All of these were used to gain hundreds of millions of investment dollars in a blind rush to get a quick payback on the missed opportunity of the Tesla blossom.

Ever see an aerospace startup saying that they are the "Chevy of rockets" or "The Ford or Airplanes"?
Only if you want to be laughed out of the room.

Typically, the main investors aren't whipped into a frenzy for a vehicle designed and built for the working class.

If the Elio was named "The Bitcoin Three Wheeler" it would have been funded years ago.

There still is a place for a gas powered car and the economy sector will actually be the longest lived portion.
The Performance cars will go electric.
The Luxury cars will go electric.
The SUV's will go electric.
The commuter car that needs to be charged at an apartment building (the last to get charging ports) at lower tech jobs (with slow adoption of electrification and charging ports) will have a place with Elio like ICE's for 10-20 years.
Over 95% of all charging is done at home.

So, yes. This IS a place for an EV conversation. It'll help us keep an eye on the competition for the future, instead of the competition of the past.

 

[Elio Amazed]

The ONLY reason that Internal Combustion Engine manufacturers are panicking and making boneheaded decisions on long term design is due to the Tesla threat.

And that is what Elon Musk has wanted all along. To light a fire and effect a change.

 

[Samalross]

Just read that a Tesla went from LA to New York in 50 hours. Estimated that they only charged it for 10 hours. No heat, but impressive still.

 

[W. WIllie]

That's driving time, not total time IIRR.
I drove my LRR from San Diego to the Mi/Ill state line in 46 hours "total time" in 2016 and only stopped for gas 3 times. I started with a full tank. It has a 10 gallon gas tank

Willie

 

[Samalross]

That's driving time, not total time IIRR.
I drove my LRR from San Diego to the Mi/Ill state line in 46 hours "total time" in 2016 and only stopped for gas 3 times. I started with a full tank. It has a 10 gallon gas tank

Willie

No I think it was total time two drivers non stop. Estimated 40 hours driving and 10 charging. Cost $100 for electricity.

 

[Watashiwah]

One consideration is: How long does it take to charge the various batteries at provided voltage and current? And does not the more rapid a charge often degrade the long term performance of most all batteries? One concern I have is with all batteries, they first get out on the market as being the new big solution but over the years the problems start. Li ion, for instance: now they often just last sbout two to three years no matter what charging and discharging methods. They apparently grow internal dendrites, or whatever, effectively shorting themselves out. Non of my Bluetooth speakers, for instance, work after about three years. If you are able to replace these batteries, there is no guarantee of how long they’ve been on the shelf and then you get bad ones, NIB.

I’m sticking with gasoline, heck I still have a black and white TV! Just waiting till they work all the bugs out with them color sets.

 

[johnsnownw]

One consideration is: How long does it take to charge the various batteries at provided voltage and current? And does not the more rapid a charge often degrade the long term performance of most all batteries? One concern I have is with all batteries, they first get out on the market as being the new big solution but over the years the problems start. Li ion, for instance: now they often just last sbout two to three years no matter what charging and discharging methods. They apparently grow internal dendrites, or whatever, effectively shorting themselves out. Non of my Bluetooth speakers, for instance, work after about three years. If you are able to replace these batteries, there is no guarantee of how long they’ve been on the shelf and then you get bad ones, NIB.

I’m sticking with gasoline, heck I still have a black and white TV! Just waiting till they work all the bugs out with them color sets.

BEV batteries with BMS are not analogous to Li-Ion in consumer electronics.

As long as you keep batteries cool while charging, the proper electrolyte mix, and a buffer at both ends, they will last a LONG time. Tesla packs are trending towards ~400k miles to ~70% capacity. Li-Ion batteries in consumer electronics tend to get discharged fully, and recharged fully...which is why batteries are discussed in "cycle life." However, if you never charge and discharge them to 100% they will last well beyond the cycle life estimates...which is why BEVs always have buffers at the top and bottom end.

If you have an interest in the subject, this lecture by Jeff Dahn gives a detailed, but digestible, explanation: