WilliamH
Elio Addict
........."SOLAR HAS THE ONCE A DAY PROBLEM WE CALL NIGHT TIME & TO A LESSER EXTENT CLOUDY DAYS .
WIND POWER HAS THE PROBLEM OF CALM DAYS & STORMY DAYS ."...........
Classic!
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Gov't Loans
- Thread starter CompTrex
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........."SOLAR HAS THE ONCE A DAY PROBLEM WE CALL NIGHT TIME & TO A LESSER EXTENT CLOUDY DAYS .
WIND POWER HAS THE PROBLEM OF CALM DAYS & STORMY DAYS ."...........
Classic!
Some comments in bold text above. I wish I had time to write more and explain better. I work in solar thermal industry as an engineer. My older brother works for a wind energy company as an engineer. Renewables technology is way further advanced and moving faster than you may suppose. And FWIW, renewables don't need to 100% displace coal, oil, and gas. That's just a distraction from the real arguments on the merits of renewables. No one ever put any other energy source to that standard, did they?
archer5013
Elio Aficionado
“We govern what the public thinks about.” ~ Edward Bernays
(Sigmund Freud's nephew, author of the {1928} book, "Propaganda" - creator of the pro-cigarette campaigns, the pro-ww1 campaign, the {corporate} "public relations" business)
Though renewables can come pretty close to delivering a huge chunk of our energy needs. Germany produced 25.8 GW (that’s 25.8 billion watts) with solar energy on April 20 and April 21, 2015, setting a new record. Annual sunshine hours in most of Germany: 1200-1600 h; annual sunshine hours in most of the United States (except for the South West, where it is more): 2400-3000 h…
At nighttime, wind energy still works and energy storage solutions are developing constantly. It’s anachronistic to think renewable energy will not take over a major share of energy production in the very near future.
WilliamH
Elio Addict
Give us a number on how many acres of solar it will take to replace the output of Indian Point keeping in mind that Indian Point provides about 30% of New York City's electric needs. And solar only works during the day. So what will you do at night?
See my post above for the night time energy needs. That is not a very critical issue, as energy usage peaks during the day and there are renewable energy sources that can be used when solar isn’t viable. As much as an Elio won’t replace a pickup truck, solar energy won’t completely replace other forms of energy generation. But renewable energy (at least outside of the U.S.) will supply an ever increasing share of energy needs. Even though the U.S. lags much behind in this area, the current share of renewable energy over here is about 13%.
If, not so sunny, Germany can produce 50% of its daily energy needs through renewable sources, as has happened on several occasions, sunny New York would have no issues beating that record.
Indian Point only generates 2,000 megawatts on a good day and New York City consumes upwards of 10,000 megawatts during peak times. Indian point also has a checkered safety record and is at risk from earthquake damage. Efforts to close Indian Point are gaining ground in New York State.
As to the acreage of solar installations needed to replace a nuclear power plant: it is much less than the available roof space and of no concern if one is serious about conserving resources in a smart way.
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Ty
Elio Addict
I can tell you this much... This is NOT from some random source but straight from my own attempt to put solar cells on my house. So, here's a tale for the weary.
I'm in the military. (Yeah, yay me. Whatever.) Anyway, I move quite often. I'm in New Mexico and bought a house as that was the only way to get my kids in a decent school. It can be difficult to find high school, middle school, and elementary schools that are decent. My kids do very well in school and that's probably because both parents are very in tune with what they are doing and Daddy has made it abundantly clear that getting good grades is their job (in good courses - not underwater basket weaving). Back on topic.
My wife and I decided to put solar panels on our house to help stave off New Mexico's high electricity costs AND help the resale on the house which we figured we'd only be able to put 3 years in before having to move again. We contacted 3 different solar providers in the area. CST uses SunPower panels that put out 327 vs. 255 watts that their competition uses. Through my calculations (I'm a bit of an Excel wizard), I found that those solar panels were the most cost effective and would pay for themselves the fastest. This would let me put 24 panels on the house and cover 75% of our average electricity needs.
The overall price was $31,494.40 to have it done which would cost me $22,046.08 after the government incentives (YES, that's us taxpayers covering 30% of my solar cost.) They would produce $186 per month of solar leaving me with $83.87 per month to pay. Albuquerque would then pay me $34.67 for the electricity I generate even though I used it already for the first 8 years. My new electric bill would be $49.21 saving me $2,378.46 per year which means it would take me 9 years to break even. I'm leaving in 3 so I'd still owe about $15,000 when I go to sell the house. My real estate broker, who I actually like and trust, said that honestly, people don't understand solar enough to assign a value to it and thus houses with solar don't sell for more than houses without for the most part.
Someone here said that solar only gets a small percentage of incentives compared to Oil, coal, and nuclear power and that is probably right. It is right because there is so little solar out there in the first place and it is still expensive. Most people aren't in a position to sink $22,000 into something that doesn't pay off for 9 years. In reality, that same $22,000 put into an account earning 5% would bring in $1,100 a year forever. And THAT means that the cost advantage of my solar panels would take an effective 18 years to pay themselves off. So, I'll lose $3,835 that I could have saved by having panels on my house while living here but that $22,000 will earn me $1,100 a year for the next 40 years... and THAT is why Solar panels haven't caught on yet.
I don't think we can blame the government for not supporting solar enough as they are already picking up 30% of the bill. Oh, by the way, New Mexico would have covered another 10% but I'm ineligible because I own another house and the only way they'll cover 10% is if this was my only house. (try to move every 2-3 years and not end up with a house here or there)
I'm in the military. (Yeah, yay me. Whatever.) Anyway, I move quite often. I'm in New Mexico and bought a house as that was the only way to get my kids in a decent school. It can be difficult to find high school, middle school, and elementary schools that are decent. My kids do very well in school and that's probably because both parents are very in tune with what they are doing and Daddy has made it abundantly clear that getting good grades is their job (in good courses - not underwater basket weaving). Back on topic.
My wife and I decided to put solar panels on our house to help stave off New Mexico's high electricity costs AND help the resale on the house which we figured we'd only be able to put 3 years in before having to move again. We contacted 3 different solar providers in the area. CST uses SunPower panels that put out 327 vs. 255 watts that their competition uses. Through my calculations (I'm a bit of an Excel wizard), I found that those solar panels were the most cost effective and would pay for themselves the fastest. This would let me put 24 panels on the house and cover 75% of our average electricity needs.
The overall price was $31,494.40 to have it done which would cost me $22,046.08 after the government incentives (YES, that's us taxpayers covering 30% of my solar cost.) They would produce $186 per month of solar leaving me with $83.87 per month to pay. Albuquerque would then pay me $34.67 for the electricity I generate even though I used it already for the first 8 years. My new electric bill would be $49.21 saving me $2,378.46 per year which means it would take me 9 years to break even. I'm leaving in 3 so I'd still owe about $15,000 when I go to sell the house. My real estate broker, who I actually like and trust, said that honestly, people don't understand solar enough to assign a value to it and thus houses with solar don't sell for more than houses without for the most part.
Someone here said that solar only gets a small percentage of incentives compared to Oil, coal, and nuclear power and that is probably right. It is right because there is so little solar out there in the first place and it is still expensive. Most people aren't in a position to sink $22,000 into something that doesn't pay off for 9 years. In reality, that same $22,000 put into an account earning 5% would bring in $1,100 a year forever. And THAT means that the cost advantage of my solar panels would take an effective 18 years to pay themselves off. So, I'll lose $3,835 that I could have saved by having panels on my house while living here but that $22,000 will earn me $1,100 a year for the next 40 years... and THAT is why Solar panels haven't caught on yet.
I don't think we can blame the government for not supporting solar enough as they are already picking up 30% of the bill. Oh, by the way, New Mexico would have covered another 10% but I'm ineligible because I own another house and the only way they'll cover 10% is if this was my only house. (try to move every 2-3 years and not end up with a house here or there)
Ty
Elio Addict
Solar Electric Load Sharing (SELS)... What you do is have partners around the globe producing more power than they need. They share the power they generate during the day that is surplus with areas where it is night and power needs are lower. Voila! Power transmission... I know...
One reason why solar isn’t taking off that much in the U.S. is that many people only look at the cost side. In other countries many people look at the overall cost combined with the environmental impact. That is a huge difference and makes solar and wind etc. look very good.
Same with the Elio. I don’t care that much about the fuel cost savings of an Elio. I use daily modes of transport that cost me more than a gas guzzling car (for example taxis) and somehow I survive just fine, same when travelling and I have to pay about four times as much at the pump as compared to what I would pay in the U.S.. I want an Elio because 84 mpg is pretty much ground breaking in maximizing how little resources a motor vehicle can use. The fuel cost savings for me are an added bonus, not a necessity.
Btw: the federal tax credit (that’s not the same as picking up 30% of the bill) is set to expire in 2016.