Gov't Loans

['lio]

According to this article, this writer says I'll be 151 years old before solar produces 50% of Germany's power ( if I read the article correctly).

http://theenergycollective.com/robe...ck-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar

I guess experts are a dime a dozen these days. Just pick a flavor or chart and go with it.

Uh, no. That’s not what the chart says.

The chart illustrates, that on May 25, 2012, photovoltaic power fed 22 GW (That is 22,000,000,000.00 Watt) into the power grid. That’s about as much as you’d get from 20 nuclear power plants, of which Germany still has 9, with the rest scheduled to be shutdown by 2022. That is more than either fossil or nuclear power plants generated that day.

Hydro, solar and wind power currently supply over 20% of Germany’s electricity generations and the goal is to reach 60% by 2050.

 

['lio]

According to this article, this writer says I'll be 151 years old before solar produces 50% of Germany's power ( if I read the article correctly).

http://theenergycollective.com/robe...ck-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar

I guess experts are a dime a dozen these days. Just pick a flavor or chart and go with it.

The article makes some huge mistakes: while German lawmakers have set the goal to have 60% renewable (not solar) energy generation by 2050, that is not going to be achieved by photovoltaics alone. The goal goes along with an increase in energy efficiency with an 50% increase set as the goal for 2050. That means during peak hours the demand on the grid will be lower.

There is also a huge increase in solar and geothermal heating capacity, that doesn’t produce electricity, but drives down the need for electricity generation. For example because less and less electricity will be used to heat water and homes. Off shore wind farms are also growing fast. All that combined will lead to the goal of 60% renewable energy in 35 years.

The article is not useful as it states a goal no one in Germany has set and goes on to say it is not achievable. What is the point of that? Why not use real numbers and real facts?

 

['lio]

you are reading that chart wrong....
on the best day solar doesn't hit the 25,000 MW and the base line for Nuclear and fossil fuels is always over 25,000 MW

A quote stating what the chart illustrates (and what you can easily see for yourself): “Germany has set a new record, with solar power providing 50.6% of its electricity in the middle of the day on Monday June 9th [2012]. Solar production peaked that day at 23.1GW. Three days earlier it was 24.2GW between 1 and 2pm”

by the way, it is GW not MW, or you would have to add a few zeros…

 

[jdkeats]

A quote stating what the chart illustrates (and what you can easily see for yourself): “Germany has set a new record, with solar power providing 50.6% of its electricity in the middle of the day on Monday June 9th [2012]. Solar production peaked that day at 23.1GW. Three days earlier it was 24.2GW between 1 and 2pm”

by the way, it is GW not MW, or you would have to add a few zeros…

I think I am in the Twilight Zone...... you supplied the chart, on the side it gave units in MW
the date looks like 5/25/2012 and solar did not hit 50%.

 

[jdkeats]

Get Smart

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/oil-subsidies-renewable-energy-tax-breaks

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...m-idea-kill-the-oil-and-gas-subsidies/274121/

Once you start quoting "Mother Jones" my eyes roll back into my head and I start spewing pea soup.
You cannot name a more leftist Rag than them.
That publication has no integrity at all, except to the stoner crowd.

 

[jdkeats]

only in America can you tax an industry a certain percentage then lower it and call it a subsidiary. The government makes more on oil than the company does and they do not have any expertise or investment. Only in the land of the free and the home of the brave.......

 

['lio]

View attachment 5840

I think I am in the Twilight Zone...... you supplied the chart, on the side it gave units in MW
the date looks like 5/25/2012 and solar did not hit 50%.

I don’t know what zone you are in, but wonder why it causes you so much anguish over a chart that in a very simple fashion illustrates that Germany indeed has days in when a majority of electricity is derived from renewables.

O.k., let’s try again with another chart from a random day, maybe this one works better for you. Relax, look at 2 p.m. and what? Voilà: way over 50% of the total energy generated from renewables (over 37% for the day)! That was easy, no?

 

['lio]

I wish I could find the articles, but it has been said that if you actually PAID what a gallon of gasoline costs you at the pump, it would cost another $3,37/gallon for excess military (not the military that protects you and me...just the part that protects oil), + a few cents/gallon for direct subsidies.

That cost is largely hidden into your federal tax bill, instead, so most people don't see it.

I do realize gasoline and electric/thermal have quite different usage profiles and the comparison isn't meant to be perfectly exchangeable. I only offer it as food for thought. What if renewables had that massive, hidden subsidy? Wow.

On top of that there is the huge environmental and health care cost of gasoline, which in the U.S. is not paid by consumers at the pump. We still pay for it though through taxes and increased health care costs.

Renewable energy by comparison does not need military interventions and doesn’t pollute much when compared to fossil fuels.

 

[Keith Dahl]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...beleaguered-solar-industry/?intcmp=latestnews

There goes our money...

hopefully that's a different dept. I think what paul is goinjg for is strictly an auto related entity

 

[Snick]

We are working hard to bring production costs down. Here's something I build for:

http://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpow...esults-based-high-efficiency-back-contact.pdf

The inventing company and its suppliers (we are one) are already working on Gen2 designs.

I also build for these:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2011publications/CEC-500-2011-040/CEC-500-2011-040.pdf These are designed to offset gas and electric use for process heat. Frito Lay has one (earlier generation): http://www.modbee.com/news/business/article3104436.html So does my nearby state prison. They have installations in Chile also.

8%-13% of the energy used in America is used to either purify water for drinking, or to treat and dry waste effluents. We can do that easily with solar in most parts of the US or produce significant energy offsetting. Does it really matter if you can't dry poop at night? No, it doesn't.

Smart technology is about understanding the process requirements. There are many low-intensity industries that don't require high Q-factor, high temperature heat, NOR require 24/7 "on" capacity (water, waste water, clothing and textiles manufacturing, light industry, commercial space HVAC (absorption chilling ideally matches load to source in daytime), food processing, and many more). When I get time, I want to research how much of the economy is misallocated (in %GDP) to electric or gas-derived high Q-factor heat sourcing that could be easily done with a fraction of capital. Smart engineering is about 1.) understanding the true needs and requirements and 2.) providing long term cost/benefit analysis that does NOT ignore costs we expect our children to pick up. We haven't been wise about this, at all, in my opinion. I don't know why we get defensive over a crappy status quo.

Here's a good blog article that covers some of this: http://blog.renewableenergyworld.co...vs-nuclear-do-we-need-more-nuclear-power.html