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I Have Given Up On Elio, Have You?

Discussion in 'General Elio Discussion' started by jdkeats, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Dreamsinger

    Dreamsinger Elio Fan

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    Have I "given up"? I went "all in" nonrefundable so giving up wouldn't really change things at all. Either way it was a wager that I lost. Do I think it will ever reach production? When flying monkeys emerge from my posterior. For even the most optimistic believing otherwise would set the bar for being a Pollyanna to a record high. I needed this car 7 years ago.
     
    Watashiwah likes this.
  2. Made in USA

    Made in USA Elio Addict

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    Sorry David but I don't think we have been conned by Elio. If it were a real con, then they would be encouraging more reservations and showing the vehicle more. Perhaps the persons most effected would be the other company directors who have put up millions as investment. (Including their reputations.)
     
  3. Samuel Gompers

    Samuel Gompers Elio Aficionado

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    While there are several decent arguments that Elio was not running a con, the handling of reservations is probably one of the weakest. They still have their website and facebook and instagram pages. They are not discouraging nor turning down new reservations. They took reservations with a promised "sales price" below the minimal projected cost of building the car. They continued to actively solicit reservations well after the point of knowing that production would be impossible according to the projected cost and time schedules.

    The best argument against Elio conning reservationists was the publication of the SEC documents. From the time of the first filing, the official filings showed the precarious state of the company, and the unlikelihood that production would be reached on time, if ever. Anyone reserving or investing after the first SEC filing could arguably have implicitly recognized the inherent risk involved.
     
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  4. Watashiwah

    Watashiwah Elio Addict

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    Paul and Hari did a masterful job of creating ‘Forward Looking Statements’ and putting out blogs, press releases, and videos. There were extremely creative campaigns such as the push to 65 thousand reservationists to sway the DOE to base their ATVM loan decision to ‘want’ vs. provable ‘merit.’ Pure genius! Other campaigns like selling 25 buck tee shirts, not so genius.

    In the spirit of ‘Forward Looking Statements’, I propose we compile a list of ‘Rearward Errors or Omissions.’ It would also be interesting to notate how these ‘errors or omissions’ ultimately benefitted the marketing side of EM.

    I’ll start the list:

    New Engine Design
    Complete Redo of Body and Frame Structure Concept
     
  5. Samalross

    Samalross Elio Addict

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    Having a roofer with no successful business experience but a good marketer lead the company.
     
  6. Made in USA

    Made in USA Elio Addict

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    It really depends on what you call successful. As the owner of Elio Engineering Paul made millions. However, the company itself started out with seatbelt patents and hoped to sell to the big automakers. That didn't happen. One source said they had up to thirty employees, but that number is probably down to one now. So for Paul, Elio Engineering has been successful. Another way to describe successful is if the company is profitable for the shareholders. Elio Motors is not successful under this definition.
     
  7. Samalross

    Samalross Elio Addict

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    He made millions with Elio Engineering at the expense of Elio Motors. I would not consider that a success except for Harry Iyer and his person enrichment.
     
  8. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    The SEC filings explain it all. Here's an example from the stock offering to just 22 months later.

    In November 2015 (for the stock offering), Elio had a $5,654 BOM for 125K units or $5,132 for 250K. All at a price of $7,600 but they were targeting $6,800. They were to build 25 prototypes and even spelled out that why they were not going the unibody route but with a tube frame and plastic panels. Plus, $247M to get to production for a 47 week timeline. Total reservations, $19.4M

    In April 2016 (just over a month after the IPO), pretty much everything stayed the same except for the amount to get to production went up 26% to $311M and no mention of the 25 prototypes. $15.8M raised with IPO.

    In June 2016, pretty much the same as the April report.

    In September 2016, they need to raise an additional $300 million to fund the completion of prototypes, testing, tooling, facility fit-up and move into production. No mention of the 25 prototypes or chassis/body construction.

    On May 1, 2017, the amount is $311M to get to production, no mention of the 25 prototypes or unibody construction.

    On May 2, 2017 (a day later), the amount increased 21% to $376M and the time frame is increased to 76 weeks. Plus they need $33M to start reducing that 76 week timeline. The new sales price is now $7,526.

    In August 2017, the amount increased 70% to $531M. This is the first time it explains how the $376M was calculated. Total reservations, $27.9M.

    From there the last two are consistent from the August 2017 filing. I have not included the extra debt they took on, just looking at the vehicle itself. In two years of filings, the cost went up 115%, the timeline increased 61% and the structure of the car changed. During this period, Elio raised $8.5M in reservations and $15.8M with the IPO for a total of $24.3M, all while the cost to production went up $284M. The cost to production outpaced the money raised by over 10X.
     
  9. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    I would add:
    Poisoning the well with fixed pricing and discounts for most of the reservations
     

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