Is There Any Physical And Substantial Progress Towards Production Of The Elio?

[Hog]

There will not be much news on the engine right now, we do testing like this, and we do not even keep the customer informed on much until we issue a final report with our observations and recommendations. I expect no real news on this front for awhile. As for the 50% bonus, I agree it seems like an emergency marketing strategy, since the numbers after the SEMA show were really miserable, and there will not be any engine news for a spell.
All that said, it hasnt changed my mind in any way, someone will build this car, I just hope this guy is the one to do it.
And yes, I too have a vintage trs-80, (with a 32k expansion interface and two 5 1/4" drives), but it has been put back in the box a long time ago, and sits in the barn awaiting a willing museum....

 

[JEBar]

There will not be much news on the engine right now, we do testing like this, and we do not even keep the customer informed on much until we issue a final report with our observations and recommendations.

from what we were told at Charlotte, Paul Elio is very heavily involved in every segment of the testing that is going on .... he's a highly qualified engineer and I have no doubt that he's closely monitoring the process .... I also don't doubt that info will be released when he wants it to be

Jim

 

[KScarguy]

KScarguy, Were those questions answered? What is your current thought?

Well, from what I read here, it sounds like, (unless I missed something) not much is happening at the plant at this time and that only one person has been hired. Can anyone add anything?

My current thought - I want a reverse trike enough that I have been contemplating building my own along the Elio lines. But until I do, I will continue to wait along with everyone else, and every so often I will check to see if anything is happening with the Elio, beyond design and testing.

 

[goofyone]

from what we were told at Charlotte, Paul Elio is very heavily involved in every segment of the testing that is going on .... he's a highly qualified engineer and I have no doubt that he's closely monitoring the process .... I also don't doubt that info will be released when he wants it to be

Jim

Yes, this really is Paul Elio's baby all the way!

From learning about this project I do not get the impression that he is a micromanager as he appears to know to let people do what they do best however he is definitely well in the loop on everything going on.

The most interesting thing to me was the fact that PE has kept and continues to keep everything about this project well documented and has materials going back to his initial ideas stored away.

 

[ehwatt]

Wow, been a long time since anyone brought up the trash 80.

Sort of like a Chevette 84, eh?

 

[Jeff Miller]

Well, from what I read here, it sounds like, (unless I missed something) not much is happening at the plant at this time and that only one person has been hired. Can anyone add anything?

My current thought - I want a reverse trike enough that I have been contemplating building my own along the Elio lines. But until I do, I will continue to wait along with everyone else, and every so often I will check to see if anything is happening with the Elio, beyond design and testing.

Let us know how quickly your build comes together, what it costs, and what kind of mileage it gets.

 

[RKing]

As an engineer within the auto industry, I am not concerned about the assembly area at the plant. I would not expect much going on (on the floor)at the 10 month out point. The biggest issue is the paint area ,and they already have 7 functional paint lines already in place and debugged, thanks GM Body shop "stuff" is also in place and mostly programing to the final product (P5).Now I am very interested in the machining centers for the engine! I hope that they are in debug at the manufacturer presently. The nice thing is that most any changes needed due to testing are software. I don't see the fixturing points as changing. Casting development is an ongoing thing, continuious improvement even during production to reduce fallout during machining. No issue to the cuctomer (US) but a factor to the bottom line , therefore an indirect impact to future customers. I am still very confident that this is a go, and the timing is still (as far as we can tell) reasonable. No other auto company has EVER shared the ongoing development progress like Elio. There is a reason, RISK, it can be a very good thing but must be carefully managed. Elio is on uncharted ground here. Perception is often more important than fact, and the thread about the Auto trans supplier confusion shows what can happen. Rumors can snowball and create distractions that are not conductive to the task at hand.

 

[Jeff Porter]

As an engineer within the auto industry, I am not concerned about the assembly area at the plant. I would not expect much going on (on the floor)at the 10 month out point. The biggest issue is the paint area ,and they already have 7 functional paint lines already in place and debugged, thanks GM Body shop "stuff" is also in place and mostly programing to the final product (P5).Now I am very interested in the machining centers for the engine! I hope that they are in debug at the manufacturer presently. The nice thing is that most any changes needed due to testing are software. I don't see the fixturing points as changing. Casting development is an ongoing thing, continuious improvement even during production to reduce fallout during machining. No issue to the cuctomer (US) but a factor to the bottom line , therefore an indirect impact to future customers. I am still very confident that this is a go, and the timing is still (as far as we can tell) reasonable. No other auto company has EVER shared the ongoing development progress like Elio. There is a reason, RISK, it can be a very good thing but must be carefully managed. Elio is on uncharted ground here. Perception is often more important than fact, and the thread about the Auto trans supplier confusion shows what can happen. Rumors can snowball and create distractions that are not conductive to the task at hand.

An auto industry engineer, excellent! I'll be picking your brain, I'll try not to be a pain in the...

What does it mean when you say you hope they are in debug at the manufacturer presently... who is they, what does debug mean for the engine? What are fixture points? What is fallout during machining?

Very interesting to hear your confirmation that no other auto company has shared it's development progress like EM.

 

[Dusty921]

As an engineer within the auto industry, I am not concerned about the assembly area at the plant. I would not expect much going on (on the floor)at the 10 month out point. The biggest issue is the paint area ,and they already have 7 functional paint lines already in place and debugged, thanks GM Body shop "stuff" is also in place and mostly programing to the final product (P5).Now I am very interested in the machining centers for the engine! I hope that they are in debug at the manufacturer presently. The nice thing is that most any changes needed due to testing are software. I don't see the fixturing points as changing. Casting development is an ongoing thing, continuious improvement even during production to reduce fallout during machining. No issue to the cuctomer (US) but a factor to the bottom line , therefore an indirect impact to future customers. I am still very confident that this is a go, and the timing is still (as far as we can tell) reasonable. No other auto company has EVER shared the ongoing development progress like Elio. There is a reason, RISK, it can be a very good thing but must be carefully managed. Elio is on uncharted ground here. Perception is often more important than fact, and the thread about the Auto trans supplier confusion shows what can happen. Rumors can snowball and create distractions that are not conductive to the task at hand.

Thank You Mr. King!!

Here, folks, is factual information and sage advice from someone who really knows what he's talking about.

For all intensive purposes the "Plant" was designed to build vehicles and tweaking to the "Elio" is being handled by the best qualified, Comau.

The engine is being developed by IAV, an industry leader and infinitely qualified to do so.

P4 and it's production counterpart P5, will be well worth it's affordable base price exactly as it rolls off the line.

Tour appearances have, worst case scenario, created interest about the Elio in a very positive light.

Governmental issues are being resolved.

EM has been far more transparent in their dissemination of information than any other manufacturer before them.

Let's not rock the boat with distractions, well intentioned as they may be.

 

[RKing]

What does it mean when you say you hope they are in debug at the manufacturer presently... who is they,
They would be Comau and they build a very good CNC machining center. These machines are mostly standard with special fixturing to hold the specific component to be machined. The more "off the shelf" the machine the easier the debug is . Leaving only the validation of fixturing and cycle times after the Gcode (cutting) program is written and tested. Still need to do "qualification" runs to validate repeatibility within required specification (six sigma math stuff) . The biggest issue is integration of material handling to load and unload the parts. 250,000 units comes out to 1 block every 1 minute, 1 head , 1 crand, ect. No way 1 machine will "make rate" so there will be multiple machines doing different parts of the machine work for each component. There for the need for automated material handling. I personally hope they gave the package, turnkey , to Comau to "clean up" the integration requirements. Easier for me to build the loader if I built the machine, I know how both work!
what does debug mean for the engine? Just the tweaking to get it actually working like the models and better !
What are fixture points? For instance ,the block casting will be located by cast in locator points and "cubed", then relocated by the machined surfaces and "manufacturing holes" drilled and reamed to precisely locate the block as the rest of the machining steps take place. That is how you make sure the crank bore is square with the cyl bores , trans flange is square with crank bore ect. The machine fixturing is specific to the component. I suspect the machining "process" sequence has been establishe a long time and the current enging was machined to that process as partial validation. Lots of things happening at the same time. That's the nice thing about contracting a specilist to do this , all the manpower needed to acompolish the task on time, then Elio is no longer paying for all those engineers when the work load decreases.
What is fallout during machining?
There is always "scrap". Casting can leave small voids in the component ,these may be exposed during machining and are then rejected. Saturn(foundry) X-Rayed EVERY engine block to check for these issues before sending to machining. Then there are tool wear/ breakage. Machining tools are expensive and we do not change them until the usuable life is expired. This is determined by "math" initially but needs validation in real life. Some tools don't lase as long as expected and cause a scrap part. Will always have some fallout, the less "scrap" the less cost in the engine.

Sorry for the long post, to lighten the subject ,wonder which side the operator station will be on ??

And Jeff , a little pickin of the brain feels kinda good, I'm bored silly presently