Odds & Ends And All Things That Don't Fit Anything Else

[Grumpy Cat]

I understand both of these and I don't like the entire concept. It requires an entirely new infrastructure that is expensive and complex.

I have also never seen an economic argument that shows that hydrogen vehicles can compete with battery electrical vehicles.

Hydrogen vehicles were always concept cars that looked neat but were used by auto manufacturers to show that alternate fuels would never work and used to convince average consumers that they should stick to gasoline vehicles.

Yes, yes, I've seen Metallic Hydrogen, high pressure systems, and other ideas. Nothing seemed as simple and effective as a battery.

The "Hydrogen Economy" always seemed like a "we can advance power density faster than battery technology" sales pitch that never actually lived up to the hype.

I'll just gesture towards Tesla and (now) every other manufacturer desperately trying to imitate them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-hydrogen-powered-cars-are-better-2016-1

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Hydrogen_vs_Electric_Which_is_actually_more_efficient

https://www.treehugger.com/cars/are...ption-compared-battery-electric-vehicles.html

 

[Hootersnoocher]

Um, isn't electricity used to hydrolyze hydrogen from water? Where is the source?

 

[Maurtis]

Um, isn't electricity used to hydrolyze hydrogen from water? Where is the source?

Correct. And they can also get hydrogen from reforming natural gas as well. That is one of the things that Elon Musk points out about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and why he is not worried about them. They take a lot of energy and natural resources to turn electricity into hydrogen just to turn it back into electricity. Fuel cell vehicles seem like a great idea until you take into account also what it takes to get the hydrogen.

I still think it is a neat technology, just not sure it will take off for consumer use.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-hydrogen-powered-cars-are-better-2016-1

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Hydrogen_vs_Electric_Which_is_actually_more_efficient

https://www.treehugger.com/cars/are...ption-compared-battery-electric-vehicles.html

You posted 3 links to prove my point?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

You posted 3 links to prove my point?

Not to prove your point exactly. Electric has its pros and cons, so does hydrogen, so does gas.

 

[Chaz]

Correct. And they can also get hydrogen from reforming natural gas as well. That is one of the things that Elon Musk points out about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and why he is not worried about them. They take a lot of energy and natural resources to turn electricity into hydrogen just to turn it back into electricity. Fuel cell vehicles seem like a great idea until you take into account also what it takes to get the hydrogen.

I still think it is a neat technology, just not sure it will take off for consumer use.

Unless of course you are like Iceland and use geothermal energy to convert water into hydrogen.

 

[Coss]

Ah, gotchya. I agree. For me, it's about the infrastructure. The electrical grid is already there and can be optimized. The gasoline infrastructure is the baseline.

Granted, I may be wrong and time will most certainly tell.
When an in-production hydrogen car beats the Tesla in performance and price range, I'll be impressed.
(shocked actually)

That won't be hard to do, the performance will be very similar to full Electric.
Distance will be easy to do, but the charge time will be like no other, pull up, connect the fuel line (sealed) flip the switch, and you'll be full in 20 to 30 seconds. Piece of cake! But you know that they will have to have some kind of safety monitor, that is kid and elderly proof, or it will have to be a station that has trained personal to do it for you.

 

[Ty]

Ah, gotchya. I agree. For me, it's about the infrastructure. The electrical grid is already there and can be optimized. The gasoline infrastructure is the baseline.

Granted, I may be wrong and time will most certainly tell.
When an in-production hydrogen car beats the Tesla in performance and price range, I'll be impressed.
(shocked actually)

I agree that the infrastructure of gas is the baseline to beat. But, let me challenge you here:
1. Autonomous cars are going to happen.
2. Electric cars take too long to charge and have too little range for a realistic long travel. Fuel Cell vehicles offer 300+ mile range and under 5 minute refueling.

Given those three points, I see a time where a gas station on every corner stops being the norm. When was the last time you saw a phone booth? Same thing.

Scientists at the University of Delaware found they can use Nickel instead of platinum which will bring the cost down. a 5 seat car like the Toyota Mirai would be close to $23,000 and would have a 300+ range (Honda already gets 366 miles per fill-up) and takes approximately 5 minutes to fill it up.

Fuel cells also last longer than batteries, less expensive to replace (at 150,000 miles for the fuel cell), and don't lose their range with age.

But alas, none of this matters. Electric vehicles have momentum and that momentum will probably overcome the inconvenience of their charge times, cost, weight, limited range, and disposal problems.

 

[Johnny Acree]

I don't know where to put this. I just had to pass it on. The numbers just blow my mind!
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...now-it’s-raising-issues/ar-BBAZpdz?li=BBnbfcN

 

[booboo]

(From NYT - "On This Day") June 4,1896 - Henry Ford made a successful pre-dawn test run of his horseless carriage, called a quadricycle, through the streets of Detroit
https://www.thehenryford.org/collec...l-collections/artifact/252049#slide=gs-212191