Paul Elio At St Francis University

[JEBar]

Does a newbie who just came across this project "need to know" about the delays? The lack of funding? The failed funding attempts? The fact that the prototype is just a show car with no ABS, EFI, IAV engine, production dash, a/c, sound deadening, etc? That elio does not have enough left of the $65M that they have raised to build a functional prototype?

I have no problem with that info being available to anyone .... Paul has addressed all of those issues and more .... what I do have a problem with is the presentation that the problems arise because the folks running EM are blatantly corrupt, dishonest, lying swindlers .... that because they have had some delays and missed some deadlines they will never bring the project to production .... giving folks facts is one thing, twisting those facts is another

 

[Rickb]

Some thoughtful commentary. I like that. Even good ideas, carried to extremes, can be harmful. Keeping your mouth shut, for instance. Not sharing essential information can harm others. At times, keeping your mouth shut implies agreement or support. That has been proven repeatedly throughout history, and has been tried through the courts.

The "discretion is the better part of valor" has often been used as an excuse for cowardice, but I do not believe that it was intended to be such. I am not convinced that there always need be a choice between honesty and discretion. With skill, in many, if not all situations, it is possible to be both discrete and honest. Some decisions require great thought, study and even prayer to seek out the best solution.

As far as elio motors go, my "need to know" is based on internal motivations, not on any outside force. My pursuit of knowledge about this project has led me to conclusions that are clearly unpopular with the prevailing opinions of this forum. Or at least the official prevailing opinions of this forum. I do not believe that there are many, if any, persons who had reservations back when the announced production date was March 2015 who have made additional reservations since the January 15 announcement of funding problems and the production date slippage.

Does a newbie who just came across this project "need to know" about the delays? The lack of funding? The failed funding attempts? The fact that the prototype is just a show car with no ABS, EFI, IAV engine, production dash, a/c, sound deadening, etc? That elio does not have enough left of the $65M that they have raised to build a functional prototype?

Anyway, back to "honesty is the best policy". It has been my observation that every public announcement by elio and their staff must be parsed very carefully to even approach what the truth is. At some point, we have all had friends like Eddie Haskell, who we knew would say whatever they felt suited them best at the moment. When you regularly have to make excuses and explanations for the things elio says and does, that should be a hint that something is fundamentally askew. Honesty in business doesn't usually attract much attention. Dishonesty tends to get noticed after a while. elio motors has been building their reputation step by step for years. Some see that as a reputation for honesty and competence, while others see it as a reputation for dishonesty and incompetence.

Edward "W." Haskell, I haven't heard that name in years, which dates me since I watched every episode of the original Leave It to Beaver series. I agree and feel a high % of the current early $1K all ins would now likely be refundalble reservationists knowing all the facts leading up to the current delay. That still shows support without the risk of losing money. That wouldn't even change the scheme of things because EM would still be short of funds.

Having followed Elio since '08 I feel strongly EM has built a reputation of honesty and competence, and even though they have lost my trust, I still feel overall that EM is honest and without doubt are competent as engineers, designers, and PR specialists in selling the dream, but lack in fund raising skills. Had I started following this company a couple years ago, and plunked down a $1K all in a day or two before the last delay, my view would be much different. My attitude may also change dramatically if there is no funding and/or prototype building underway by mid summer, as the 2016 production schedule would be an impossible timeline with all the work to do.

I'm neither pro or con PF as he is reacting to his personal experience and feelings as a former Elio Fanatic. I also am neither pro or con current Elio fanatics that think all is well in Elioville. It's opinion based and if we don't like and or agree with them we can hit ignore over resorting to name calling and continuing a nasty debate.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Edward "W." Haskell, I haven't heard that name in years, which dates me since I watched every episode of the original Leave It to Beaver series. I agree and feel a high % of the current early $1K all ins would now likely be refundalble reservationists knowing all the facts leading up to the current delay. That still shows support without the risk of losing money. That wouldn't even change the scheme of things because EM would still be short of funds.

Having followed Elio since '08 I feel strongly EM has built a reputation of honesty and competence, and even though they have lost my trust, I still feel overall that EM is honest and without doubt are competent as engineers, designers, and PR specialists in selling the dream, but lack in fund raising skills. Had I started following this company a couple years ago, and plunked down a $1K all in a day or two before the last delay, my view would be much different. My attitude may also change dramatically if there is no funding and/or prototype building underway by mid summer, as the 2016 production schedule would be an impossible timeline with all the work to do.

I'm neither pro or con PF as he is reacting to his personal experience and feelings as a former Elio Fanatic. I also am neither pro or con current Elio fanatics that think all is well in Elioville. It's opinion based and if we don't like and or agree with them we can hit ignore over resorting to name calling and continuing a nasty debate.

I'd keep my 1k all in- I went in on the project with the assumption that it is a very strong possibility it will not come to pass. EM throws in a $500 incentive and sweetens the deal. Since Aug 18th 2014 (my buy-in) , and I thought I was getting in "under the wire" PR had indicated no more incentives after Sept.1st
ASiDE from all the B*ll S*it they've secured the factory, finally got 1 engine running, and had a booth (and accompanying publicity) at The NY Auto Show.

Although I don't think of myself as a gambler, when it looks like I have, what I believe, are good odds, I;ve been in. I've purchased many $100.00 tickets, from non-profits, specifically Volunteer Fire Depts, for the chance to win a Corvette (always seemed that it was). I think it was 1 in 500, but for sure a cap.

I have peers (I'm 72) who purchase lottery tickets daily (which they can ill afford to do,) with the expectation that when (not even if) they win will be able to afford (fill in the blank)

I never have read Road and Track, Motorworld, Hot Rod, and any other related automotive publications, but I'm proud to say how much more knowledgable I've become on these topics. (It makes me giggle when I attempt to read threads on short wave, the electronic tv,camera/radio, drones, and robotics).I've also learned great computer skills I'm proud to call many of you friends and happy to be able to put my observations on our journey here.

and MOST of all the sharing of our (dark) humor
I also try to be sure my spelling is correct,if not- I get posted for my transgression!!
Thanks
Many would usually say about here G*D Bless, but I'm an atheist -LOL!!!!

 

[John Painter]

And that is the clearest indication that I may have been correct in stating that PF is an anachronism. It would appear that "Honesty is the best policy" is no longer seen as a realistic business plan by many. I salute Rickb as another anachronistic believer in truthfulness.

As George Carlin used to quip. Even though honesty is the best policy, evidently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second best.

 

[eliothegreat]

I think you are missing the big picture and the true reason why everyone is "jumping" on Past Fanatic. There is a huge difference is spreading "truth" versus spreading venom. The truth needs to be said and people need to do research before putting money down. What PF does is spout half truths mixed with bitterness and hateful diatribe. You can defend him all you want and although your writing style is totally different, you "two" joined within days of each other and many of your posts are written defending PF, so I have doubts about things. But anyway...

LOL You caught us. My name really is Sybil. The real trick has been racing back and forth to opposite ends of the country to post from each of my many accounts. For all I know, you are one of my other personalities, and when I'm you I like insulting myself (as Past Fanatic), and having paranoid fantasies about my other self (as eliothegreat). Since I really can't be sure of how many of me are out there, maybe this whole forum is just me arguing with myself at times, and agreeing with myself at others. Boy, am I messed up!

I'm done for now, but I will say that PF mixes full truths with some bitterness, but doesn't engage in hateful diatribe. He has a few favorite bones he likes to chew, but he doesn't make up facts. Sorry to disillusion so many, but stating facts and conclusion does not constitute hate, even if the conclusions are different from the hearer's own preferences. The hatred, if there is any, has been directed at PF. Chamberlain and Churchill were both patriots who loved their country, but their messages and styles were received quite differently. Sometimes, our perceptions of who is a "hater" shifts over time and circumstance. Both Churchill and Chicken Little warned of pending trouble. They laughed at Edison and at Fulton. They also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Time may show whether PF saw the obvious before so many others, or whether he was just another doom and gloom pessimist.

FWIW, PF joined a long time before I did, but his account was suspended "accidentally" a couple of times, so he had to change names, etc.

 

[eddie66]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...faces-to-launch-a-three-wheel-84-mpg-6800-car

 

[John Painter]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...faces-to-launch-a-three-wheel-84-mpg-6800-car

I think the piece is accurate if not unbalanced and comes across as a bit personal. I chuckled a little bit by the last bit in the article about the Dale and Liz Carmichael. I had responded on EM's Facebook page to a poster who said EM is a scam just like Dale, so I responded back are you saying Paul Elio is a transsexual like Liz Carmichael? Of course EM deleted the post, but the door was wide open and I had to walk through it with such an interesting comparison - really no comparison between the EM and Dale, let alone PE and Carmichael in any way. If there's a comparison to be made it would be closer to Aptera, which is also a risk for Elio Motors I think.

 

[WilliamH]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...faces-to-launch-a-three-wheel-84-mpg-6800-car

I had to laugh when I got almost to the end of the story and read...........
........"But as one commenter noted, perhaps the Elio should have been a lightweight electric vehicle."..........
Sorry, but if the Elio was an electric vehicle with the typical range of an electric vehicle I would not be interested, at any price.

 

[JEBar]

I had to laugh when I got almost to the end of the story and read...........
........"But as one commenter noted, perhaps the Elio should have been a lightweight electric vehicle."..........
Sorry, but if the Elio was an electric vehicle with the typical range of an electric vehicle I would not be interested, at any price.

AMEN on that

 

[John Painter]

I had to laugh when I got almost to the end of the story and read...........
........"But as one commenter noted, perhaps the Elio should have been a lightweight electric vehicle."..........
Sorry, but if the Elio was an electric vehicle with the typical range of an electric vehicle I would not be interested, at any price.

Agreed! The internal combustion engine is a major plus for me, as I think the Elio is a transitional vehicle for weaning Americans off oil which we are very addicted to.