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Push-start Safe?

Discussion in 'Elio Drivetrain' started by XanWolf, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. XanWolf

    XanWolf Elio Aficionado

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    For the most part, manual transmission cars can be push-started to get the engine going. Many of the older automatic transmissions had a "rear pump" which allowed for push-starting of them as well.

    Is there any harm perceived in push-starting the Elio with a manual transmission?

    Will it be possible to push-start the automatic transmission versions of Elio?
     
  2. skygazer6033

    skygazer6033 Elio Addict

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    I see no reason the manual transmission Elio couldn't be push started but the AMT is another matter. Even though the AMT is basically a manual transmission the shifting and clutch operation is electrical. So the bottom line is if you have a dead battery you have no starter you also have no gear shifting or clutch. Hello jumper cables.
     
    outsydthebox likes this.
  3. floydv

    floydv Elio Addict

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    Push starting can damage the catalytic converter by sending a big plug of unburned fuel into it.
     
    Coss likes this.
  4. Coss

    Coss Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    We've talked about this at length before; if you do a Search on Starting I'm sure you'll bring up a few hundred entries.

    The conversation went back and forth and it came to a couple of conclusions:
    1) It's a new car (AutoCycle) with a 3 year warranty, so problems like this probably won't be an issue.
    2) Call AAA and get them to give you a jump/tow; that is if you have Triple A.
    3) Alternative to Triple A? Your car insurance; most policies have roadside service included.

    And a few others; but over all, not really something you'll probably have to worry about.
    But most likely you can.
     
  5. XanWolf

    XanWolf Elio Aficionado

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    Push starting is just an old cure for several different ailments. Could be weak battery. Could be bad solenoid starter or bindix (sp?) gear. While it is great to live in the hopes of never having one of these breakdowns, I have lived through multiple events where push starting saved the day. True, there were no cell phones and that makes it easier to call for the local assistance and pay them to save you rather than your home mechanic (or Pep Boys in this case).

    At such times, eroding your catalytic converter is the last thing on your mind. For the most part, I do not see how a manual transmission vehicle could be seriously hurt but one or two push starts and I would expect that it would work.

    Automatic transmissions are fairly different. Some work and some do not. The last time I push started (hill roll started really) was a in a 1960s era T-bird (I want to say 1963, but not sure). Yes, it was old then but it got me around. Anyway, I do not know of any new ones that do; but that does not mean that there are not any.

    I was not meaning for this to be a thread on "Should you push start your Elio every morning to avoid maintaining it?" but rather, in the manual transmission case, "Is there any fundamental engineering issue which will likely cause immediate failure if I push start the manual transmission Elio?"
     
  6. Coss

    Coss Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    "I have lived through multiple events where push starting saved the day."
    How old was the car you were driving at the time?

    "...a in a 1960s era T-bird..."
    Back when they had a rear pump (which they have not had since then) and the new lock out electronics that they have.
    In short, I did check with EM if you could push start an automatic, and the answer is..... No.

    "....Could be weak battery...."
    If that's the case, there is nothing to run the fuel pump which is needed to maintain fuel pressure in a fuel injected vehicle.

    This is a case that you're comparing experiences with old technology vehicles to the Elio (even though it is pretty basic) is still using state of the art electronics and driveline; it's driveline and electronics are so different there is no true comparison.

    And as stated, we have discussed this to great length, multiple times.
    I did a Search (as I recommended earlier) and here's one of the last discussions we had from August 2015

    http://www.elioowners.com/threads/function-cost-of-amt-vs-manual-interesting.6237/

    It's 17 pages that cover everything you have asked about.
     
    booboo and Jambe like this.
  7. skygazer6033

    skygazer6033 Elio Addict

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    After rethinking my statement in post #2 I don't think the manual transmission Elio or any other car with electronic fuel injection can be push started if the battery is completely dead. You might be able to pull it off if the battery is very weak (to weak to spin the starter) but still has enough power for the ECM, injectors, and fuel pump. If the battery is completely dead I doubt the alternator flipping over a few turns while bump starting is going to power up those systems. Back to jumper cables.
     
    wizard of ahs likes this.
  8. CrimsonEclipse

    CrimsonEclipse Elio Addict

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    A Bendix Magneto will not likely be installed on the Elio. :D
    As for push starting an Automatic Clutched Manual transmission, I'd suggest against it. It would likely require a work around to get the clutch to engage during the right moment and disengage as soon as the engine starts.

    A manual transmission should be rather straight forward and the car is rather light.

    I'd suggest a small battery pack to boost a low battery.
     
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  9. skygazer6033

    skygazer6033 Elio Addict

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    I have a 1948 Ford 8n tractor that has a Bendix starter drive. It's original with 6 volt and positive ground. I don't think the Bendix drive has been used in cars for 40 or 50 years. Modern starters utilize engagement solenoids.
     
  10. Coss

    Coss Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here you go; Jump Starter Mini Pack

    $35.00 from Walmart
     

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