Squashed like a bug.

[Sonoran Sam]

...reach a broader audience and attract major investors who may not have heard of Elio Motors before then.

I was under the impression Paul didn't really want "major investors" (initially) as he didn't want to share his pie.

I imagine there are better ways to seek venture capital to fund a project, then producing and airing a TV commercial aimed at end-users.

I think I first heard of Elio because of an online article.

Same here... I was just poking around on the internet, trying to figure out how to replace my old Pontiac that was dying.

 

[RSchneider]

From day one, Paul wanted major investors. When Elio Motors was founded back in 2008 to the end of 2012, those major investors never came about. After his failed attempt with Pontiac, MI, he went the route of a desperate town of Shreveport that was in panic mode due to the beloved GM plant shutting down. They took the bait. Then he went after the new form of funding in 2013, crowdsourcing. Within a year, Paul got about 9K reservations for a vehicle that he planned on selling 250K per year. In the next three years, he got another 54K.

What does that tell you? It tells me that there is not enough interest for 250K per year. Not even enough interest for 25K per year. All Paul did was just keep building up the dream while very few believed in it. Even the IPO fell short. Thus, lack of interest. As we all know, Paul needed to go into high volume to justify the price. Low volume would mean high price. Thus nobody here would be interested. People here can't afford a $17,900 Arcimoto and a Vanderhall is priced in the uber rich category. Even at that, here's a forum that was devoted to the Elio yet only garnered just over 4K people. Again, lack of interest.

As we all have found out, Elio was priced way too low to make any profit. Even double that price would not work today with the Elio business plan. The Elio 2.0G needs to be about 35K to start with a plan like FUV. Sell to a limited part of the US and expand from there. Other option is to do what the most successful three wheeler startup has done, go find dealers, set up a service network and then sell nationwide at a low volume. Vanderhall did that in 6 years. It took FUV double the time to get to production and it's limited geographically. Both are rich mans play toys. Not poor mans all weather vehicles designed for the rest of us.

 

[Made in USA]

From day one, Paul wanted major investors. When Elio Motors was founded back in 2008 to the end of 2012, those major investors never came about. After his failed attempt with Pontiac, MI, he went the route of a desperate town of Shreveport that was in panic mode due to the beloved GM plant shutting down. They took the bait. Then he went after the new form of funding in 2013, crowdsourcing. Within a year, Paul got about 9K reservations for a vehicle that he planned on selling 250K per year. In the next three years, he got another 54K.

What does that tell you? It tells me that there is not enough interest for 250K per year. Not even enough interest for 25K per year. All Paul did was just keep building up the dream while very few believed in it. Even the IPO fell short. Thus, lack of interest. As we all know, Paul needed to go into high volume to justify the price. Low volume would mean high price. Thus nobody here would be interested. People here can't afford a $17,900 Arcimoto and a Vanderhall is priced in the uber rich category. Even at that, here's a forum that was devoted to the Elio yet only garnered just over 4K people. Again, lack of interest.

As we all have found out, Elio was priced way too low to make any profit. Even double that price would not work today with the Elio business plan. The Elio 2.0G needs to be about 35K to start with a plan like FUV. Sell to a limited part of the US and expand from there. Other option is to do what the most successful three wheeler startup has done, go find dealers, set up a service network and then sell nationwide at a low volume. Vanderhall did that in 6 years. It took FUV double the time to get to production and it's limited geographically. Both are rich mans play toys. Not poor mans all weather vehicles designed for the rest of us.

What I found interesting was that Elio Motors stopped counting after 65,000. They implied it was enough. Think I would have shot for hundreds of thousands instead of stopping. What was he afraid of? Were there legal reasons? As Paul is apparently in "no communication" mode, we may never know. Be interesting if there were a class action lawsuit by common, non-director, shareholders.

 

[3wheelin]

From day one, Paul wanted major investors. When Elio Motors was founded back in 2008 to the end of 2012, those major investors never came about. After his failed attempt with Pontiac, MI, he went the route of a desperate town of Shreveport that was in panic mode due to the beloved GM plant shutting down. They took the bait. Then he went after the new form of funding in 2013, crowdsourcing. Within a year, Paul got about 9K reservations for a vehicle that he planned on selling 250K per year. In the next three years, he got another 54K.

What does that tell you? It tells me that there is not enough interest for 250K per year. Not even enough interest for 25K per year. All Paul did was just keep building up the dream while very few believed in it. Even the IPO fell short. Thus, lack of interest. As we all know, Paul needed to go into high volume to justify the price. Low volume would mean high price. Thus nobody here would be interested. People here can't afford a $17,900 Arcimoto and a Vanderhall is priced in the uber rich category. Even at that, here's a forum that was devoted to the Elio yet only garnered just over 4K people. Again, lack of interest.

As we all have found out, Elio was priced way too low to make any profit. Even double that price would not work today with the Elio business plan. The Elio 2.0G needs to be about 35K to start with a plan like FUV. Sell to a limited part of the US and expand from there. Other option is to do what the most successful three wheeler startup has done, go find dealers, set up a service network and then sell nationwide at a low volume. Vanderhall did that in 6 years. It took FUV double the time to get to production and it's limited geographically. Both are rich mans play toys. Not poor mans all weather vehicles designed for the rest of us.

My sentiment exactly.

 

[Rickb]

From day one, Paul wanted major investors. When Elio Motors was founded back in 2008 to the end of 2012, those major investors never came about. After his failed attempt with Pontiac, MI, he went the route of a desperate town of Shreveport that was in panic mode due to the beloved GM plant shutting down. They took the bait. Then he went after the new form of funding in 2013, crowdsourcing. Within a year, Paul got about 9K reservations for a vehicle that he planned on selling 250K per year. In the next three years, he got another 54K.

What does that tell you? It tells me that there is not enough interest for 250K per year. Not even enough interest for 25K per year. All Paul did was just keep building up the dream while very few believed in it. Even the IPO fell short. Thus, lack of interest. As we all know, Paul needed to go into high volume to justify the price. Low volume would mean high price. Thus nobody here would be interested. People here can't afford a $17,900 Arcimoto and a Vanderhall is priced in the uber rich category. Even at that, here's a forum that was devoted to the Elio yet only garnered just over 4K people. Again, lack of interest.

As we all have found out, Elio was priced way too low to make any profit. Even double that price would not work today with the Elio business plan. The Elio 2.0G needs to be about 35K to start with a plan like FUV. Sell to a limited part of the US and expand from there. Other option is to do what the most successful three wheeler startup has done, go find dealers, set up a service network and then sell nationwide at a low volume. Vanderhall did that in 6 years. It took FUV double the time to get to production and it's limited geographically. Both are rich mans play toys. Not poor mans all weather vehicles designed for the rest of us.

I agree with the exception of the FUV being an unaffordable rich mans toy. Vanderhall yes, FUV no. The FUV is currently an open air, affordable, everyday use commuter/fun/utility/vehicle according to owners in the current regional sales and service States. Most find they choose to drive the FUV over their cars. FUVs will get more affordable ($11,900 target MSRP) with production scale. Also, economical to own and operate as a daily commuter, again according to actual owners, FUV owners are not rich men or women. One could buy his and hers $17,900 FUVs for the price of a Vanderhall. The FUV looks to be the practical/comfortable daily use commuter with driver comfort seating with the vehicle height needed for visibility (see and be seen). Both look FUN to drive. I can verify the FUN factor of the FUV based on an actual test drive. Sadly, this old man couldn’t get in and out of the Vanderhall to experience a test drive.

 

[RSchneider]

I agree with the exception of the FUV being an unaffordable rich mans toy. Vanderhall yes, FUV no. The FUV is currently an open air, affordable, everyday use commuter/fun/utility/vehicle according to owners in the current regional sales and service States. Most find they choose to drive the FUV over their cars. FUVs will get more affordable ($11,900 target MSRP) with production scale. Also, economical to own and operate as a daily commuter, again according to actual owners, FUV owners are not rich men or women. One could buy his and hers $17,900 FUVs for the price of a Vanderhall. The FUV looks to be the practical/comfortable daily use commuter with driver comfort seating with the vehicle height needed for visibility (see and be seen). Both look FUN to drive. I can verify the FUN factor of the FUV based on an actual test drive. Sadly, this old man couldn’t get in and out of the Vanderhall to experience a test drive.

View attachment 25842

I can't find any information that is current when it comes to this $11,900 model. I did find this:

498 FUV's sold to customers since the release in Q3 2019
5,662 pre orders (they lost 112 pre orders in 2021)
Base price is $17,900
Avg price is $20,229
773 pre orders of the MLM
Sales volume needs to be 7,500/yr for them to start turning a profit

If the $11,900 is possible and everyone knows it, why spend the extra right now? If that becomes the case, then when will the $11,900 version happen? I bet it will never happen as the base price has been set at $17,900. Due to inflation, it'll be $19,900 in a year or two. Plus, they don't have enough pre orders to fufill their goal of 7,500. I guess the old saying, "Build it and they will come" will work. So far it's led to a 112 reduction in pre orders. I suspect that the big push for FUV when it comes to commercial and govermental sales is that they are hoping to tap into that market as the consumer market has been lukewarm and they need to keep throwing out concepts as the sales numbers are a real issue at the moment. As we all know, local goverments and commercial spend much more per unit and thus they are concentrating on that sector as the poor consumer is not a good business plan to go with. 14 years and 500 units sold. They are under pressure to get the production numbers up. Hopefully, that new 220,000 sqft plant will do the trick.

 

[Rickb]

I can't find any information that is current when it comes to this $11,900 model. I did find this:

498 FUV's sold to customers since the release in Q3 2019
5,662 pre orders (they lost 112 pre orders in 2021)
Base price is $17,900
Avg price is $20,229
773 pre orders of the MLM
Sales volume needs to be 7,500/yr for them to start turning a profit

If the $11,900 is possible and everyone knows it, why spend the extra right now? If that becomes the case, then when will the $11,900 version happen? I bet it will never happen as the base price has been set at $17,900. Due to inflation, it'll be $19,900 in a year or two. Plus, they don't have enough pre orders to fufill their goal of 7,500. I guess the old saying, "Build it and they will come" will work. So far it's led to a 112 reduction in pre orders. I suspect that the big push for FUV when it comes to commercial and govermental sales is that they are hoping to tap into that market as the consumer market has been lukewarm and they need to keep throwing out concepts as the sales numbers are a real issue at the moment. As we all know, local goverments and commercial spend much more per unit and thus they are concentrating on that sector as the poor consumer is not a good business plan to go with. 14 years and 500 units sold. They are under pressure to get the production numbers up. Hopefully, that new 220,000 sqft plant will do the trick.

Why wait another year or 2 on a “Targeted $11,900 scaled production MSRP” when the current base price of $17,900 is a fair/affordable pricepoint at current production numbers for an “&” vehicle to supplement to the family car. If my must have full enclosure was currently available, I’d buy one in a heartbeat. There appears to be no regrets from the initial $19,900 Evergreen owners. A few have logged on 10K sMILES. They are building it (6 units/day), while setting up the new factory for scaled production numbers……50K units per year from the Eugene RAMP location. The consumer market is being tested and proven. Current owners report that they are asked daily, what is that and where can I buy one? People want to get their butts in seats. They are shipping a % of production FUVs to their rental partner locations. Excellent marketing strategy creating visibity and test drive opportunities For future owner wannabes. Slow………..500 units since crossing the certified production model starting line in 2019. Always pressure for a new startup to scale production numbers, but the interest and orders for FUVs are there and the company is fiscally efficient for a new startup and either close to or totally debt free. No reservationist has lost their deposits while waiting to order a vehicle that actually is in production and delivering to very happy customers. Also, they have developed and are are ready to role out the other FUV platform models: The Deliverator, Rapid Responder, Roadster, TRUCKSTER, Cameo. and the Lean Mean Machine to cover a wide range of market demographics. Seems to be a company with short and long range plans with the dedication and resources to get it done, unlike most others. I give them credit. My guess is if one test drives it they’ll like or appreciate the experience, but it may or may not meet their needs, wants, and desires.

 

[RSchneider]

Why wait another year or 2 on a “Targeted $11,900 scaled production MSRP”

Why pay 50% more for a product today? Plus, they need to crank through 5600+ reservations first and then if you live in a banned area like where I live, then it's a complete mystery as to when it'll ever be available.

For you on the other hand, can buy one today yet you refuse to do so because of the door issue. I'd buy one but I need to test drive one, have those same doors you want and allow them to sell me one (as I'd have to move probably 2K miles for the right to own one). Top it off, I will have to wait until 2024 so don't have to pay 50% more than I should have to. As one poor person to another, saving $6K is a requirement for me. I just wish Arcimoto would put it put there that within two years, the $11,900 will be ready for sale. Right now, that's been either buried in the website or eliminated (not even mentioned in the recent SEC filings either).

I understand what it takes for startups. Yet another three wheeler did it in 6 years and got certification for the US (which is super duper hard) plus Australia (which is super duper hard). So, if one company can do it, then so can another. I just wish Arcimoto would pick up the pace and start delivering product plus stop getting involved in goofball products like the MLM but make a set of doors so you can finally get yours. Plus the half doors cost $2500. How much will the full doors be? I'm thinking $4K. So I might as well wait for the not mentioned anywhere $11,900 version for 2024 and get a set of free doors plus a few more free accessories and pay as much as I could today for a base model.

 

[Rickb]

I won’t buy a vehicle that doesn’t meet my needs. I’ve test driven vehicles that met my styling and specs needs, but didn’t purchase based on a test drive…….ingress/egress, driver comfort, fit and finish, performance and handling. Regardless of our apparent debate, I’m happy Arcimoto is on task, currently has 7 regional sales and service States selected for whatever their business logic, strategically expanding to other States while implementing production scale plans in their new RAMP, and keeping the engineering team busy with product development to include new products like the MLM. That helps future sales revenue and the bottom line.

 

[JohnJ]

It seems that "anythingbutelio.com" is available if anyone is interested.