Technosports, Elio Prototypes

[Ty]

Looks like about a month, the blog posted the first photos of the P4 chassis under construction on December 18, and the completed P4 on January 18.

Perhaps. It could be a different iteration or the hold up could have been body panels... we just don't know. You could very well be right. My question would then be once the jigs were set up, how much longer would it take to cut, weld, shape the next part (or 20) using the same fixture? Since we don't know, it is really hard to guess. It isn't quite the same but when building a picket fence, it takes me close to an hour to set up my compound miter slide saw, set up the stop, and verify the measurements. Thus, that first stick took an hour but the next 100 took less than an hour and a half.

 

[KenK]

Picket fence? Who are you, Norman Rockwell?

Is there a similar story out there? From zero to production on less than $200 million? Maybe the T-Rex folks? I thought Brammo would have been one, but it looks like they've had other ventures before their electric motorcycles.

 

[Proud to be]

Very True, but there are Thousands of 'widgets' in a prototype Elio that have to be custom made, and assembled 'by hand' without assembly line workers or robotic machines. With the stated time to hire/train the Shreveport workers (three months), and a few months to do the 'testing', before final design acceptance; that means that Technosports Creative have to turn out at least 2-3 completed (road ready) "E" series prototypes per month. Not IMPOSSIBLE, but they have not demonstrated that capability yet. That also assumes that the IAV engine will be ready for installation in JUNE. If it is not ready until OCTOBER (as some have said) the rate of building will have to be even quicker.

What has been demonstrated is that Elio Motors claimed last year; "
"Elio Motors:-- Ray. We will have 18 Prototypes in 3 -4 months.
Like · 2 · August 10, 2013 at 1:11pm"...... and FIVE MONTHS later; they produced ONE P4.

Just basing my comments on documented past 'comments' and demonstrated 'performance', not on what I HOPE, and what 'could be'.

I don't do those on-line things like Facebook, and the other forums that are out there, so I don't know for sure, but a friend just told me that some people get PAID to complain and stir the pot, kind of stuff... Are you one of them? you seem to complain about anything that goes on with Elio Motors... What good does it do to complain on-line to people who are all waiting for the Elio to make it to production... You, 3 card and few other's just keep on complaining about why you don't have an Elio right now, and the company is going to fail, the sky is falling type stuff... We are all waiting and are looking forward to the start up of Elio Motors... We are all want the Elio to hit the streets as soon as possible... you seem to only look at the negative side of anything Elio Motors has done, in the past or the future...

Stop the Negative stuff... life is to short to... sometimes dreams come true... GO Elio Motors...

Proud to be... an Elio owner... soon #2225 3rd quarter of 2015...

 

[JNR]

I don't do those on-line things like Facebook, and the other forums that are out there, so I don't know for sure, but a friend just told me that some people get PAID to complain and stir the pot, kind of stuff... Are you one of them? you seem to complain about anything that goes on with Elio Motors... What good does it do to complain on-line to people who are all waiting for the Elio to make it to production... You, 3 card and few other's just keep on complaining about why you don't have an Elio right now, and the company is going to fail, the sky is falling type stuff... We are all waiting and are looking forward to the start up of Elio Motors... We are all want the Elio to hit the streets as soon as possible... you seem to only look at the negative side of anything Elio Motors has done, in the past or the future...

Stop the Negative stuff... life is to short to... sometimes dreams come true... GO Elio Motors...

Proud to be... an Elio owner... soon #2225 3rd quarter of 2015...

I am on fb and view some of the other forums, Rogwild seems to be a big fan of the Elio but disappointed in the lack of honesty/transparency of the prototype builds. I don't express my negativity about this subject, but I agree with Rogwild that Elio has been lacking in this regard. For me, it seems to be all about the money, if Elio had the money they hoped for, the prototypes would be built as promised, but the money must be coming in slower than they hoped, therefore the recently announced delays.

 

[Lil4X]

If there were unlimited funds for prototyping perhaps the schedule might be improved, but as it is, available cash has to be distributed among a number of budgets, including marketing, planning, site acquisition, engineering, tooling, the pay for the folks coming on board to perform those operations. It's a juggling act, and start-up businesses, whether a automaker or a bake shop, have to allocate their limited funds carefully.

Then there is the problem of ordering up "prototypes" en masse. The whole process of development requires a couple of "engineering studies" (in our case, P-1 through P-4) to go from that cocktail napkin sketch to some kind of physical reality that can be tested, examined, and evaluated. Then you get to the "production prototype" stage where you begin to consider how the product will be manufactured, and alter the study model to reflect the needs of component sourcing, budgeting, and assembly. Each of these individual "prototypes" require a thorough program of testing and evaluation - so you don't build a dozen models all at once because you won't learn anything from a dozen articles you can't learn from one - at least at this point. Each is supposed to build on the knowledge gained from the previous one.

EM wisely began to show their car early on in this process. It's not a scam trying to attract investors, but a savvy means of testing the market and creating demand. They can't say "We expect to go into production on __(some future date)___, because in the early phases of engineering and testing, they don't have the hard numbers to produce any kind of hard delivery date. They can preface a target date with "if we get the funding, vendor participation, and if all of our ideas work out" but sometimes that kind of honesty is a bit brutal. Better to say to the public, "What do you think, would YOU buy this product idea for - say $7,000?" You are testing the depth of the market rather than teasing the public. If you are going to get big investors (people ready to plunk down the MILLIONS that this project will require) showing viability in the market is step one. You and I putting up some cash (or a lot, depending on your disposable income) up front only indicates the depth of your commitment, it's never going to fund EM to the point they can begin cranking out 250 Elios every day.

"First production" models test the assembly process once all of the components have been tested and evaluated. Here you shift from building one-off models to building a short series of models to get a feel for production timing at each stage. You have to answer questions like, "Are my suppliers able to maintain delivery schedules?", "Is the line running efficiently, and where can we improve the process?", and "Can we maintain both quality and budget over a short production run, and will this scale up accurately?"

That's where my experience runs out of gas because the nature of the products I worked on went to a small group of potential customers, and five to a several dozen units per month, depending on the product, could saturate our available market. Currently in the oil industry, as of last month there were 3,363 drilling rigs running in the US, Canada, and around the world, up over 150 from last year's tally. That's a very small market by any definition, particularly when your products have a design life averaging over 10 years.

There are plenty of people here who can correct or extrapolate this process as it applies to mass production, in the auto or any other large industry - and their perspectives would be useful and welcome to this discussion.

 

[Tomg3rd]

Will any of you buy the extended engine and tranny warranties? With only 3/36, the commuters will eat that up in a year and a half. A Brand new engine means I am hoping that EM joins the rest of the automotive world and give us at least 60k and hopefully 100k.

Wouldn't pay extra for this but Elio should offer a much better protection plan esp since this is a new car to the market. Why not offer 100K??

 

[fred bott]

Don't forget to add Harley Davidson to that... for years, dealers had to park bikes on cardboard to soak up the oil and there were copies in showrooms with the tail light wires hanging down against the tire. They've cleaned up their act a lot since those years but they are still used as an example in Industrial Engineering course work... specifically to point out that overly automating processes does have limitations and detriments.

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Exactly why Harley Davidson did not go into the computer business.....THEY COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT LEAK OIL.....

 

[Lil4X]

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Exactly why Harley Davidson did not go into the computer business.....THEY COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT LEAK OIL.....

It's the same excuse some of my friends in the UK use for not being major suppliers of computers. Now if they could just work out a way for them to leave oil stains on your desktop . . . .

 

[Johnny Acree]

Wouldn't pay extra for this but Elio should offer a much better protection plan esp since this is a new car to the market. Why not offer 100K??

The thing about warranty you have to understand. It's an insurance policy. miles equals dollars.
If they put a 100K warranty on the car it has to be added to the price of the car.
At $6,800.00 you are not going to get a 100K warranty. I'm surprised they are talking about 36K.
I come from the day when 1 year or 12K was the norm!

 

[Lil4X]

That's very true, which brings up the point that anyone wanting more warranty could purchase one in the aftermarket. . . Once Elio develops some kind of track record. Then, shop around . . . and ask your mechanic who he prefers to deal with.