The Elio Engine

[karl]

I'm not saying that it is, or isn't, but the "gauge cluster/ instrument panel/ gauge pod, in my '94 Metro, sits in front of the driver, and is only about 15" across, and WOULD fit in the Elio. The dashboard could be shaped around it. Later models might be slightly longer, but would also eliminate the cost of designing a new one. Just sayin'

Where do you think you could get enough of these to go into production? You have one, next?

 

[outsydthebox]

Where do you think you could get enough of these to go into production? You have one, next?

It doesn't have to be from a Metro. Many late model cars (that I am aware of) , large or small, have a gauge cluster that could be used for this application. Now, I am sure that if you spend enough time, you can find an exception. My point is, there are probably hundreds to choose from. Choosing a gauge cluster, from a car that is already in production, fits in with EM's desire to keep things "low cost".

 

[goofyone]

The reality on the ground is that there are no large numbers of gauge clusters just sitting around on shelves waiting to be installed in Elios. All new vehicle manufacturers, and their OEM suppliers, use just in time manufacturing so each gauge cluster installed in a new vehicle is essentially built for that vehicle. In the current system each automaker also designs their own gauge clusters making existing designs proprietary.

Whatever gauge cluster Elio Motors uses will be built to order just for them. Elio Motors can keep the cost of their gauge cluster down by using off the shelf components within their gauge cluster however the overall design will be unique to Elio no matter what it ultimately looks like. This is the reason why Elio Motors can consider a design like the controversial Elgin Dash as the cost to assemble an Elgin Dash with off the shelf components will likely be very similar to the cost of building most other designs that also use off the shelf components.

 

[Lil4X]

My '95 Civic had an almost identical cluster to that of the Geo that worked just fine, was accurate, easy to read, and one of the better features of the car. Since all it is doing is reporting some of the OBDII data, (plus fuel gauge and odometer) any instrument electronics should be fairly easy to plug and play.

 

[outsydthebox]

The reality on the ground is that there are no large numbers of gauge clusters just sitting around on shelves waiting to be installed in Elios. All new vehicle manufacturers, and their OEM suppliers, use just in time manufacturing so each gauge cluster installed in a new vehicle is essentially built for that vehicle. In the current system each automaker also designs their own gauge clusters making existing designs proprietary.

Whatever gauge cluster Elio Motors uses will be built to order just for them. Elio Motors can keep the cost of their gauge cluster down by using off the shelf components within their gauge cluster however the overall design will be unique to Elio no matter what it ultimately looks like. This is the reason why Elio Motors can consider a design like the controversial Elgin Dash as the cost to assemble an Elgin Dash with off the shelf components will likely be very similar to the cost of building most other designs that also use off the shelf components.

Interesting points. Makes sense, too.

 

[Horn]

So funding and building the car is quite expensive as we all know.

All of you guys want the Elio out asap, yet want to make sure it is a quality product. Deadlines have been pushed back and progress seems slow.....

So, why are they redesigning the engine to start off with? This costs more money. They could have made a very few changes to the g10 Geo Metro (suzuki) engine to make it more modern looking and disguise it. Also, it would have the same power and could easily get 65MPGs highway with the right transmission and camshaft.

It would make the process faster, cheaper and the engine has been proven very reliable.

Then down the road after making several, they could introduce major engine changes......

 

[pj rogers]

Horn..the Suzuki alto has the perfect engine for the elio...size and weight, add their automatic and pop that combo into the elio...100mpg would be easy.

 

[Horn]

Horn..the Suzuki alto has the perfect engine for the elio...size and weight, add their automatic and pop that combo into the elio...100mpg would be easy.

Exactly...I don't specifically mean to use the G10.....Just some other already proven and reliable engine. Instead of starting from scratch.

 

[Lil4X]

The expensive part of building an engine these days is emissions certification. If you're going to build an engine for simplicity and economy there are a number of techniques that have emerged since the Geo's day, including superior metallurgy, precision casting, better induction and fuel management and far superior electronic engine controls. If you're going to build a "new" engine - even one based on a 20 year-old block, to build in volume is going to require extensive rounds of testing and certification. Let's do it once and be done with it.

Setting the bar at 84 mpg with a 55/55 hp/torque output was a lofty goal - and one that EM seems to be meeting. The Suzuki engine would have never made it. From a marketing standpoint, 84 mpg highway is a stunner - and it excuses a lot of lightweight design, odd, three-wheel looks, and tandem seating. Aerodynamics have to be a top priority to achieve that goal, and the final form is going to have to follow the needs expressed in the wind tunnel. That means no two-abreast seating to achieve a narrow frontal section, no saddlebags, trailers, luggage racks, or roof pods to disrupt the clean airflow over the body; even rolling down a window is going to have serious consequences to fuel efficiency. Hence, air conditioning.

Now, with that said, there is no reason several of these options can't be added at or after purchase. Just don't expect that 84mpg figure. What we often lose sight of here is that THIS Elio is designed as a single-seat commuter - with the capability of hauling a passenger and a small amount of luggage - a briefcase or two - that's it. It won't carry the family on a picnic, nor will it haul sheets of plywood for a home DIY project. It's not a sportscar in the modern sense - meaning something with track day potential. Elio will be fun, but within its limits.

 

[zelio]

The expensive part of building an engine these days is emissions certification. If you're going to build an engine for simplicity and economy there are a number of techniques that have emerged since the Geo's day, including superior metallurgy, precision casting, better induction and fuel management and far superior electronic engine controls. If you're going to build a "new" engine - even one based on a 20 year-old block, to build in volume is going to require extensive rounds of testing and certification. Let's do it once and be done with it.

Setting the bar at 86 mpg with a 55/55 hp/torque output was a lofty goal - and one that EM seems to be meeting. The Suzuki engine would have never made it. From a marketing standpoint, 86 mpg highway is a stunner - and it excuses a lot of lightweight design, odd, three-wheel looks, and tandem seating. Aerodynamics have to be a top priority to achieve that goal, and the final form is going to have to follow the needs expressed in the wind tunnel. That means no two-abreast seating to achieve a narrow frontal section, no saddlebags, trailers, luggage racks, or roof pods to disrupt the clean airflow over the body; even rolling down a window is going to have serious consequences to fuel efficiency. Hence, air conditioning.

Now, with that said, there is no reason several of these options can't be added at or after purchase. Just don't expect that 86mpg figure. What we often lose sight of here is that THIS Elio is designed as a single-seat commuter - with the capability of hauling a passenger and a small amount of luggage - a briefcase or two - that's it. It won't carry the family on a picnic, nor will it haul sheets of plywood for a home DIY project. It's not a sportscar in the modern sense - meaning something with track day potential. Elio will be fun, but within its limits.

I am so glad you joined our forum Lil4X. Your posts are always knowledgable, informative and positive. It is a pleasure to have you as one of us. I hope I get to meet you someday so I can thank you in person. :-) Z