The Elio Engine

[Grumpy Cat]

We all knew that already Grumpy Cat! That line of reasoning has been used and abused so many times frankly I'm tired of it! You were looking for verification and Rickb did the research for you so at least give him credit! Accept the fact or stay with your blinders, your choice. Jeez.

I had no animosity towards Rickb and him showing Elio has debt. We all know start ups have tons of debt, especially with trying to bring a new vehicle to market for the masses. I was bringing up my comment again to point to that fact. I don't let my emotions to get the better of me. I just find it so odd people don't know the difference between risk and a scam.

 

[Mmeyer]

Can -vs- SHOULD

Can the Elio have 150 HP? Sure
Is it necessary, or even appropriate? No.
It's a extremely light and efficient vehicle that needs a different power curve that the engines you listed.
In addition, Turbo charger add weight and complexity, something not (yet) appropriate with the Elio philosophy.

and Renault isn't exactly known for making great engines.

(which explains why you think 100,000 miles is reliable)

*snickers*

If you want the best fuel mileage and emissions then you have to make a more efficient motor.
1000cc 50HP pushing 1200 pounds will return extremely poor fuel consumption less then 30MPG compared to the same 1000cc 150HP pushing the same 1200 pounds can get as high as 100MPG and thats just a matter of physics and fact (See formula FORD racing program) and the 100MPG is a design goal from the ELIO team to get there pushing 1200 pounds you have to have at least 125 HP or it is not going to happen. SO, yes it is appropriate and a requirement.
and dont even think about the argumeent that i used racing data and the Elio is not a race car. stick to science and physical facts not argue based on conjecture.
It is about usable power and emissions and fuel consumption Bottom line
and that is what is appropriate not your political sit behind a desk and push keys on a key board, use some intelligence.
And you talk about power curve? I don't think you know what your talking about.
Do some research forced air induction is a must do thing to meet the euro 5 standard.
even without the forced air Induction as far as usable torque curves go there is a plethora of motors that do a better job then what y'all are planning to put in the ELIO. make it fun car not a loser car. here is an american based engine that meets emissions and fuel consumption that are set forth in the ELIO goals
why waist money on engineering and emission testing when someone else has? and yes a quick and responsive motor sells better then any other feature on a car (Look at history).
If you want to keep it selling well and in the future and actually keep it american and use this motor it is a 3 cylinder of the ideal displacement and the bench mark for the class and its from an american car manufacturer and the only one meeting the fuel and emission requirements either use it or use it as a bench mark for what you are trying to build. Too keep the selling price down to under $8000 just buy the engine from Ford. if you build your own there is no way you can do that without making the car price go up above $35K so buy and use the FORD engine

 

[Grumpy Cat]

If you want the best fuel mileage and emissions then you have to make a more efficient motor.
1000cc 50HP pushing 1200 pounds will return extremely poor fuel consumption less then 30MPG compared to the same 1000cc 150HP pushing the same 1200 pounds can get as high as 100MPG and thats just a matter of physics and fact (See formula FORD racing program) and the 100MPG is a design goal from the ELIO team to get there pushing 1200 pounds you have to have at least 125 HP or it is not going to happen. SO, yes it is appropriate and a requirement.
and dont even think about the argumeent that i used racing data and the Elio is not a race car. stick to science and physical facts not argue based on conjecture.
It is about usable power and emissions and fuel consumption Bottom line
and that is what is appropriate not your political sit behind a desk and push keys on a key board, use some intelligence.
And you talk about power curve? I don't think you know what your talking about.
Do some research forced air induction is a must do thing to meet the euro 5 standard.
even without the forced air Induction as far as usable torque curves go there is a plethora of motors that do a better job then what y'all are planning to put in the ELIO. make it fun car not a loser car. here is an american based engine that meets emissions and fuel consumption that are set forth in the ELIO goals
why waist money on engineering and emission testing when someone else has? and yes a quick and responsive motor sells better then any other feature on a car (Look at history).
If you want to keep it selling well and in the future and actually keep it american and use this motor it is a 3 cylinder of the ideal displacement and the bench mark for the class and its from an american car manufacturer and the only one meeting the fuel and emission requirements either use it or use it as a bench mark for what you are trying to build. Too keep the selling price down to under $8000 just buy the engine from Ford. if you build your own there is no way you can do that without making the car price go up above $35K so buy and use the FORD engine

Will the Ford engine fit in the Elio? How much will this engine cost to buy from Ford? Elio has already put the money into the IAV, which they will be selling to other companies. If you sell something, you are making money. If you buy something, you aren't making money.

 

[Samalross]

If you want the best fuel mileage and emissions then you have to make a more efficient motor.
1000cc 50HP pushing 1200 pounds will return extremely poor fuel consumption less then 30MPG compared to the same 1000cc 150HP pushing the same 1200 pounds can get as high as 100MPG and thats just a matter of physics and fact (See formula FORD racing program) and the 100MPG is a design goal from the ELIO team to get there pushing 1200 pounds you have to have at least 125 HP or it is not going to happen. SO, yes it is appropriate and a requirement.
and dont even think about the argumeent that i used racing data and the Elio is not a race car. stick to science and physical facts not argue based on conjecture.
It is about usable power and emissions and fuel consumption Bottom line
and that is what is appropriate not your political sit behind a desk and push keys on a key board, use some intelligence.
And you talk about power curve? I don't think you know what your talking about.
Do some research forced air induction is a must do thing to meet the euro 5 standard.
even without the forced air Induction as far as usable torque curves go there is a plethora of motors that do a better job then what y'all are planning to put in the ELIO. make it fun car not a loser car. here is an american based engine that meets emissions and fuel consumption that are set forth in the ELIO goals
why waist money on engineering and emission testing when someone else has? and yes a quick and responsive motor sells better then any other feature on a car (Look at history).
If you want to keep it selling well and in the future and actually keep it american and use this motor it is a 3 cylinder of the ideal displacement and the bench mark for the class and its from an american car manufacturer and the only one meeting the fuel and emission requirements either use it or use it as a bench mark for what you are trying to build. Too keep the selling price down to under $8000 just buy the engine from Ford. if you build your own there is no way you can do that without making the car price go up above $35K so buy and use the FORD engine

[/QUOTE

 

[Samalross]

I do not understand forced air induction. Is there something else, besides superchargers and turbos, to increase air intake? If there is, why don't other engines use it?

 

[WilliamH]

If you want the best fuel mileage and emissions then you have to make a more efficient motor.
1000cc 50HP pushing 1200 pounds will return extremely poor fuel consumption less then 30MPG compared to the same 1000cc 150HP pushing the same 1200 pounds can get as high as 100MPG and thats just a matter of physics and fact (See formula FORD racing program) and the 100MPG is a design goal from the ELIO team to get there pushing 1200 pounds you have to have at least 125 HP or it is not going to happen. SO, yes it is appropriate and a requirement.
and dont even think about the argumeent that i used racing data and the Elio is not a race car. stick to science and physical facts not argue based on conjecture.
It is about usable power and emissions and fuel consumption Bottom line
and that is what is appropriate not your political sit behind a desk and push keys on a key board, use some intelligence.
And you talk about power curve? I don't think you know what your talking about.
Do some research forced air induction is a must do thing to meet the euro 5 standard.
even without the forced air Induction as far as usable torque curves go there is a plethora of motors that do a better job then what y'all are planning to put in the ELIO. make it fun car not a loser car. here is an american based engine that meets emissions and fuel consumption that are set forth in the ELIO goals
why waist money on engineering and emission testing when someone else has? and yes a quick and responsive motor sells better then any other feature on a car (Look at history).
If you want to keep it selling well and in the future and actually keep it american and use this motor it is a 3 cylinder of the ideal displacement and the bench mark for the class and its from an american car manufacturer and the only one meeting the fuel and emission requirements either use it or use it as a bench mark for what you are trying to build. Too keep the selling price down to under $8000 just buy the engine from Ford. if you build your own there is no way you can do that without making the car price go up above $35K so buy and use the FORD engine

All you have done is make a bunch of unsubstantiated assumptions and ask us to accept your results on faith.
Show us the underlying assumptions, the science, the math, and the results, then we may not be as skeptical.
Until you can provide substantiated information you should probably calm down.

 

[Johnny Acree]

Forced air induction is just an all encompassing term for turbo and supercharging, as well as any other form of forcing air in to an engine.

 

[Kuda]

Snipped:
Until you can provide substantiated information you should probably calm down.

IAV is anything but stupid (although they
may be a bit chagrined at not being paid?)
They designed & built a bespoke engine
that has international capabilities not just
for the Elio. The engine will do what is
asked of it. Now let's hope Elio does the
same......

 

[booboo]

I do not understand forced air induction. Is there something else, besides superchargers and turbos, to increase air intake? If there is, why don't other engines use it?

I am no expert, but I think when fuel injection started to replace carburetors. The way engineers looked at increasing power changed.
I remember my friends Ram Air GOAT .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake

 

[Elio Amazed]

If you want the best fuel mileage and emissions then you have to make a more efficient motor.
1000cc 50HP pushing 1200 pounds will return extremely poor fuel consumption less then 30MPG compared to the same 1000cc 150HP pushing the same 1200 pounds can get as high as 100MPG and thats just a matter of physics and fact (See formula FORD racing program) and the 100MPG is a design goal from the ELIO team to get there pushing 1200 pounds you have to have at least 125 HP or it is not going to happen. SO, yes it is appropriate and a requirement.
and dont even think about the argumeent that i used racing data and the Elio is not a race car. stick to science and physical facts not argue based on conjecture.
It is about usable power and emissions and fuel consumption Bottom line
and that is what is appropriate not your political sit behind a desk and push keys on a key board, use some intelligence.
And you talk about power curve? I don't think you know what your talking about.
Do some research forced air induction is a must do thing to meet the euro 5 standard.
even without the forced air Induction as far as usable torque curves go there is a plethora of motors that do a better job then what y'all are planning to put in the ELIO. make it fun car not a loser car. here is an american based engine that meets emissions and fuel consumption that are set forth in the ELIO goals
why waist money on engineering and emission testing when someone else has? and yes a quick and responsive motor sells better then any other feature on a car (Look at history).
If you want to keep it selling well and in the future and actually keep it american and use this motor it is a 3 cylinder of the ideal displacement and the bench mark for the class and its from an american car manufacturer and the only one meeting the fuel and emission requirements either use it or use it as a bench mark for what you are trying to build. Too keep the selling price down to under $8000 just buy the engine from Ford. if you build your own there is no way you can do that without making the car price go up above $35K so buy and use the FORD engine

Right. The number of people that know how to build a better Elio boggles the mind.

I will say this. I'm still bothered by all the mystery that shrouds the Elio engine.
Did we ever get official real-world or dyno stats, and NOT simulation?
Even simple mpg and hp? I don't remember any announcements.
If anyone has a link to real world or dyno stats, please post.
And then again, there's that whole variable-valve thing.