The Elio Engine

[CompTrex]

just a casual observation based on no knowledge whatsoever ===> testing started in mid November .... Thanksgiving/Christmans/New Years taken into consideration, given 6 months to test the engine, if all goes well the motor should be ready to go into production sometime around June .... I can't help but think about all that has been released about the need for additional road and crash testing, building prototypes, setting up the factory, training the factory works, training techs at Pep Boys, and much, much more .... it appears certain that to get Elios rolling off of the assembly line EM is going to have to shift into high gear (actually into overdrive) .... its going to take a herculean effort to get into production in 2015

Jim

I'm with you on my lack of knowledge, but I see it just the opposite, in a few areas.
Training factory workers. What, a week? Tops? Most of the factory will be robotics, so operator training isn't that extensive. And the stuff that requires a higher skilled worker? Well, the factory already had these workers there, so hopefully it will be easy to find labor and get them trained quickly.
Pep Boys? I'm thinking a few days watching videos and reading service manuals and they'll be up to speed. You're not training a person to be an auto mechanic. You're training an auto mechanic where to look for things.
The longest hurdle that you've mentioned, in my opinion, will be the building of the prototypes.
Also the building of all the fixtures and gauges and what-not involved in the factory.
My rose-colored-glasses still see this as entirely do-able.

 

[JEBar]

I'm with you on my lack of knowledge, but I see it just the opposite, in a few areas.
Training factory workers. What, a week? Tops? Most of the factory will be robotics, so operator training isn't that extensive. And the stuff that requires a higher skilled worker? Well, the factory already had these workers there, so hopefully it will be easy to find labor and get them trained quickly.
Pep Boys? I'm thinking a few days watching videos and reading service manuals and they'll be up to speed. You're not training a person to be an auto mechanic. You're training an auto mechanic where to look for things.
The longest hurdle that you've mentioned, in my opinion, will be the building of the prototypes.
Also the building of all the fixtures and gauges and what-not involved in the factory.
My rose-colored-glasses still see this as entirely do-able.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that they are going to really have to get busy .... my hunch is EM does know something and that they are fully aware of everything that has to be done and how quickly it has to be taken care of .... as noted, I know nothing but really, they've posted pictures of the 7 colors for a long time but, other than to say the Creamsicle paint used won't produce as nice of a finish as the one they are marketing on the P4, they recently confirmed that they haven't picked out the exact paint that will be used .... I understand that they have a small staff that is heavily focused on major issues but its the handling of the nuts and bolts that will bring the project to fruition .... my bet is they won't end up building but a few (read that as very few) prototypes .... they have built 1 motor for testing and I think the same logic can be used with deciding how many prototypes to build .... they can run the hound out of a single unit and learn where the strengths and weaknesses are .... in every news release I've seen they haven't expressed any concerns about hiring qualified personnel .... if proves to be the case, that would be a major asset

Jim

 

[Kuda]

Snipped:.... its going to take a herculean effort to get into production in 2015 Jim

I agree they have their work cut out for them, but we should
consider, that while we are all chomping at the bit to get our
Elios, the company isn't standing still. Multiple things are
happening concurrent with the engine testing. Not the least
of which are plant layout, tooling programming, supplier logistics,
crash testing planning......on & on.....a myriad of details, down to what
kind of fastener to use to hold the blessed dash in place. Ponder this for
a while & the wait doesn't seem so bad................

 

[goldwing06]

two strokes are inherently 'dirty' engines.

yeah, those 2 stroke gas engines built before the 70's, were, due to oiling requirements. the outboard motor industry made tremendous strides in reducing the emissions of 2 stroke gas engines, because of epa requirements, but still needing a light weight, high power output engine. i remember nights in sigon when u could hardly breath or see, due to the 2 stroke smoke from all the cycolopes running around the streets hauling the off duty gi's from the air base to the bars. by the time the 2 stroke manufactures of motorcycles and saab autos, epa rules had tightened to the point that is was more economical for them to switch to 4 stroke designs or quit selling to the american market. gm had been producing 2 stroke, x71 diesels, for many years before that. however, since u get get both types of pol product from the same barrel of crude, it's hard to say which smoke is more harmful, the diesel or 2 stroke lube smoke.

 

[zelio]

Not that it's the final word, but 6 months for an engine update?

I believe there was a detailed post of what exactly this means within the last couple of weeks. I will look for it later today if someone doesn't find it faster than that. And yes, it is 6 months but that covers a huge amount of testing. :-) Z

 

[goofyone]

Not that it's the final word, but 6 months for an engine update?

This does fit with what we know about the extensive testing program however the biggest problem we have is we don't know six months from when. We know dyno testing began in mid November however we also know from interviews with Paul Elio that for at least a month before that they were doing various tests and even assembled and disassembled the engine at least once. There was plenty of testing on individual parts and the assembly before they even made it to the dyno.

All this means the testing could be half over already or merely getting started and unfortunately we just don't know which one it is which makes it very hard to predict the timeline.

Once again we are simply along for the ride and just need to be patient as we wait for more details. [emoji4]

 

[Johnny Acree]

...and is that six months on the base line engine, or all the variations?

 

[JNR]

This does fit with what we know about the extensive testing program however the biggest problem we have is we don't know six months from when. We know dyno testing began in mid November however we also know from interviews with Paul Elio that for at least a month before that they were doing various tests and even assembled and disassembled the engine at least once. There was plenty of testing on individual parts and the assembly before they even made it to the dyno.

Question: even if it is 6 months, wouldn't the production prototypes be built before end of testing? Assuming the engine doesn't change shape, all other items can be finalized so they could just "slide" those engines right in when ready? I'm also assuming they don't need to finish 6 months of testing before one gets put in a vehicle, I assume some of that 6 months of testing is included to be as part of a final vehicle?

What do you think?

 

[goofyone]

Question: even if it is 6 months, wouldn't the production prototypes be built before end of testing? Assuming the engine doesn't change shape, all other items can be finalized so they could just "slide" those engines right in when ready? I'm also assuming they don't need to finish 6 months of testing before one gets put in a vehicle, I assume some of that 6 months of testing is included to be as part of a final vehicle?

What do you think?

My guess is that they would time the prototype builds to be ready for an engine whenever they expect to have an engine to put in the prototype.

Of course the problem is we just don't know if they have to wait until after the full six month period for this or if it may happen concurrently at some point.

Unfortunately EM has also told us flat out that we will not be getting a copy of their timeline which would answer these questions. The stated reason is that this has caused them too many issues in the past whenever things change which of course they will as nothing ever goes completely to plan.

 

[Kuda]

Snipped:..nothing ever goes completely to plan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy's_law