Trade War

[Maurtis]

Despite what Paul calls it, I think the public will see it as dirt cheap primary transportation. And if the market share really is that small, then they are going to have a tough time getting the 250,000 sales per year. Say, if the share is Smart car sized, they are doomed.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/smart/

But then again, if they are targeting just the commuter market that is not small by any means!

Elio themselves even compared the cost of their offering to new and used cars in their blog: https://www.eliomotors.com/we-did-the-math/

"What about used vehicles? According to USA Today, “the average price of a used car rose to $19,657 in the first quarter, up 17.6 percent compared to the same period five years ago.” Consumers could either purchase one used vehicle for that amount or purchase one Elio and save approximately $12,207. These savings don’t reflect other benefits of purchasing an Elio over a used vehicle, such as a 3-year, 36,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty."

I think the big difference (and key selling point) between the Elio and the Smart is the price. Paying $20k or more for a quirky tiny car was a tough nut for a lot of people. But spending $7,500 for a quirky tiny car, cheaper than most used cars that are not beaters and with a warranty? Much easier decision.

I think if the Elio proves reliable, not a death trap, and actually gets made then I think it will not be a niche car at all. I would love to see Elio help take a chunk out of the SUV sales. We really do not need more nearly empty SUVs on the road.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

not to get into a P_ _ing match, but there are a heap of great used cars <10k
NO One is gonna walk out the door at $7500. Transportation/delivery fees, taxes, and with no automatic??
and this, just like the rest of us here- is just a guess, it won't be $7500- will have to be more as, inflation, for whatever reasons, continue to rise.
Paul might call it now primary transportation, but too may obstacles- three wheel will be a hard sell, no rear window, one door and only one set of golf clubs fits the trunk, :-)- Lucky if a recycled box from Costco will fit.
and the worse case - an accident in which rear passenger dies. No big deal with a motorcycle death, it has accident/death factored in by the public.
FWIW all these kids on 140hp rice burners, tee shirt and no helmet, weaving on the interstates gains no points in the "publics" eye.

 

[84mpg]

May be a heap of used cars <$10K, but they have a heap of miles with only a 30 day “warranty”.

Nope, I want my 3-wheeled, small trunk and single door Elio. Oh yeah... prefer the stick too.

 

[Frim]

Despite what Paul calls it, I think the public will see it as dirt cheap primary transportation. And if the market share really is that small, then they are going to have a tough time getting the 250,000 sales per year. Say, if the share is Smart car sized, they are doomed.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/smart/

But then again, if they are targeting just the commuter market that is not small by any means!

Elio themselves even compared the cost of their offering to new and used cars in their blog: https://www.eliomotors.com/we-did-the-math/

"What about used vehicles? According to USA Today, “the average price of a used car rose to $19,657 in the first quarter, up 17.6 percent compared to the same period five years ago.” Consumers could either purchase one used vehicle for that amount or purchase one Elio and save approximately $12,207. These savings don’t reflect other benefits of purchasing an Elio over a used vehicle, such as a 3-year, 36,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty."

I think the big difference (and key selling point) between the Elio and the Smart is the price. Paying $20k or more for a quirky tiny car was a tough nut for a lot of people. But spending $7,500 for a quirky tiny car, cheaper than most used cars that are not beaters and with a warranty? Much easier decision.

I think if the Elio proves reliable, not a death trap, and actually gets made then I think it will not be a niche car at all. I would love to see Elio help take a chunk out of the SUV sales. We really do not need more nearly empty SUVs on the road.

I think that the ads will have to be very informative to educate the public about "spending $7,500 for a quirky tiny car, cheaper than most used cars that are not beaters and with a warranty?" I think most people are just very set in their rut. It is the masses that we hope to sell to. They will have to be sold economy.

 

[Trusting]

Get them on the road and they will sell themselves.

p.s. The small trunk is a problem!

 

[johnsnownw]

But then again, if they are targeting just the commuter market that is not small by any means!

Elio themselves even compared the cost of their offering to new and used cars in their blog: https://www.eliomotors.com/we-did-the-math/

"What about used vehicles? According to USA Today, “the average price of a used car rose to $19,657 in the first quarter, up 17.6 percent compared to the same period five years ago.” Consumers could either purchase one used vehicle for that amount or purchase one Elio and save approximately $12,207. These savings don’t reflect other benefits of purchasing an Elio over a used vehicle, such as a 3-year, 36,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty."

If that figure includes used luxury vehicles then it's going to be a bit skewed. The comparison should be made with used econombox sales if you really want an apples-to-apples comparison.

I think the big difference (and key selling point) between the Elio and the Smart is the price. Paying $20k or more for a quirky tiny car was a tough nut for a lot of people. But spending $7,500 for a quirky tiny car, cheaper than most used cars that are not beaters and with a warranty? Much easier decision.

Depends on if those vehicles are considered CPOs, in which case the warranty would be about the same. Granted CPO's will still most likely be more than $7500...but they'll also come with a safety rating and more seating and storage.

I think if the Elio proves reliable, not a death trap, and actually gets made then I think it will not be a niche car at all. I would love to see Elio help take a chunk out of the SUV sales. We really do not need more nearly empty SUVs on the road.

It is possible that Elio would be able to fill the hole made by legacy manufactures' removal of compact and sub-compact vehicles from their line-up, but of course they're removing them because sales have moved towards larger vehicles/SUV/CUVs

 

[Marshall]

What "current shipping"? Are they making cars and I missed it?

I think current shipping consists of bumper stickers and T-shirts. I don't know where they are manufactured.

 

[Made in USA]

What I find ridiculous is at todays prices, new vehicles cost a good portion of what a house costs. In the Midwest most houses cost from $100K to $150K (about) for a decent sized house with 1/2 - 1 acre of land. Typically the value of a house goes up over time. A new car? It's value typically drops when you take it off the lot. For my money. I would rather invest in a better house than a better car.

 

[RSchneider]

What I find ridiculous is at todays prices, new vehicles cost a good portion of what a house costs. In the Midwest most houses cost from $100K to $150K (about) for a decent sized house with 1/2 - 1 acre of land. Typically the value of a house goes up over time. A new car? It's value typically drops when you take it off the lot. For my money. I would rather invest in a better house than a better car.

Average price of a used home in Missouri:
1980 - $36,700
2018 - $153,000

MSRP:
1980 Chevette - $4,057
2018 Spark - $13,220

11.1% was the cost of a base Chevy when compared to a home in 1980.
8.6% is the cost of a base Chevy when compared to a home in 2018
$117,000 would be the cost of a home in Missouri to meet the 11.1% in 1980

 

[RSchneider]

If that figure includes used luxury vehicles then it's going to be a bit skewed. The comparison should be made with used econombox sales if you really want an apples-to-apples comparison.



Depends on if those vehicles are considered CPOs, in which case the warranty would be about the same. Granted CPO's will still most likely be more than $7500...but they'll also come with a safety rating and more seating and storage.



It is possible that Elio would be able to fill the hole made by legacy manufactures' removal of compact and sub-compact vehicles from their line-up, but of course they're removing them because sales have moved towards larger vehicles/SUV/CUVs

A few things to remember, the average cost of a brand new Elio is $10,800. This is according to what Paul Elio has said. He did not include shipping and destination charges, so let's just add $400 onto that for a total of $11,200 on average for what people will pay for a brand new Elio. Only information I can find on compact cars are that the average price for a three year unit is about $13,500. I can't find information on subcompact but I'd suspect the number would be lower but on the other hand, cars like Aston Martin are considered a subcompact, thus finding a real accurate number would be a challenge.

With that being said, a 3 year old CPO car can be had without a problem. I know we have covered this many times but those conversations are dated. So I just took a look at what I could buy locally (within 50 miles) right now and only a CPO. Plus, used cars don't have shipping and destination charges and you can talk down a dealer at least $500 which you cannot for Elio.
​

1. 2016 VW Jetta that has 50K on the clock for $11,499​
2. 2015 VW Jetta that has 26K on the clock for $11,780​
3. 2016 Ford Fiesta with 23K on the clock for $11,550​
4. 2014 Chevy Sonic with 51K on the clock for $9,660​
5. 2016 Chevy Sonic with 12K on the clock for $10,950​
6. 2015 Chevy Sonic with 46K on the clock for $11,000​

Paul Elio has admitted that the Elio is an “and” car. That means, the second cheap car you drive during the week and then use that big SUV/Pickup for hauling around the family on the weekend. That's the market he's going after because he's repeated the “and car” a number of times. For an “and car”, people will look into the car's I listed above, not a $30K used SUV. As for the poor that need to get out of the poverty cycle (as per Paul Elio) the cars above will compete against the Elio, not a $25K used crossover.

When Elio Motors brings up the $19K average used price, it goes against what Paul Elio says. Elio Motors needs to be comparing compact and subcompact cars, not Pickups and SUV's.​