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Trade War

RUCRAYZE

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A few things to remember, the average cost of a brand new Elio is $10,800. This is according to what Paul Elio has said. He did not include shipping and destination charges, so let's just add $400 onto that for a total of $11,200 on average for what people will pay for a brand new Elio. Only information I can find on compact cars are that the average price for a three year unit is about $13,500. I can't find information on subcompact but I'd suspect the number would be lower but on the other hand, cars like Aston Martin are considered a subcompact, thus finding a real accurate number would be a challenge.

With that being said, a 3 year old CPO car can be had without a problem. I know we have covered this many times but those conversations are dated. So I just took a look at what I could buy locally (within 50 miles) right now and only a CPO. Plus, used cars don't have shipping and destination charges and you can talk down a dealer at least $500 which you cannot for Elio.
  1. 2016 VW Jetta that has 50K on the clock for $11,499​
  2. 2015 VW Jetta that has 26K on the clock for $11,780​
  3. 2016 Ford Fiesta with 23K on the clock for $11,550​
  4. 2014 Chevy Sonic with 51K on the clock for $9,660​
  5. 2016 Chevy Sonic with 12K on the clock for $10,950​
  6. 2015 Chevy Sonic with 46K on the clock for $11,000​

Paul Elio has admitted that the Elio is an “and” car. That means, the second cheap car you drive during the week and then use that big SUV/Pickup for hauling around the family on the weekend. That's the market he's going after because he's repeated the “and car” a number of times. For an “and car”, people will look into the car's I listed above, not a $30K used SUV. As for the poor that need to get out of the poverty cycle (as per Paul Elio) the cars above will compete against the Elio, not a $25K used crossover.

When Elio Motors brings up the $19K average used price, it goes against what Paul Elio says. Elio Motors needs to be comparing compact and subcompact cars, not Pickups and SUV's.​
well stated, thanks
 

Ty

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Not only will the Elio be inexpensive but it may end up being one of the safest out there... can't hide your texting as easily when there are windows on both sides of you. Also, teens/inexperienced drivers won't be as easily distracted in the Elio as friends won't be tagging along for the ride. Cheaper maintenance, insurance, fuel... It's going to be hard to beat for overall economy.
 

AriLea

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not to get into a P_ _ing match, but there are a heap of great used cars <10k
NO One is gonna walk out the door at $7500. Transportation/delivery fees, taxes, and with no automatic??
and this, just like the rest of us here- is just a guess, it won't be $7500- will have to be more as, inflation, for whatever reasons, continue to rise.
Paul might call it now primary transportation, but too may obstacles- three wheel will be a hard sell, no rear window, one door and only one set of golf clubs fits the trunk, :-)- Lucky if a recycled box from Costco will fit.
and the worse case - an accident in which rear passenger dies. No big deal with a motorcycle death, it has accident/death factored in by the public.
FWIW all these kids on 140hp rice burners, tee shirt and no helmet, weaving on the interstates gains no points in the "publics" eye.
I think it's a matter of getting used to it for most people, if the safety test can pass public muster. This was one of the limits on early Smart sales. The crash test results will indeed fix that. Frankly average people have no idea what makes a car safe or not.

One reason the SUV's are so popular is the feeling of safety in traffic. Nobody is comfortable sitting 'down in the well'. As tall has become the norm, everyone is competing for a view above. The Elio will be able to offset that by driving the diamond lane in most states(hopefully all).

The SUV is also an 'all-in-one' solution that the public has bought into. But that is because of the perception of only affording one vehicle per adult driver. The real test here is will the '&car-low$' idea play well. I think it will initially do very well among a few(68k at least), but then find wider acceptance. It's a gamble on being a large volume interest, but EM has definitely researched that one aspect to the n'th degree.

My wife is a really good model for this. She's paranoid about my safety in the Elio, and would like it to just go away. Her issue is based on size and not 3 wheels. But frankly once the tests are are done, I can swing her to at least owning one, and then when I drive it around for a bit, she'll relax, let me commute in the diamond lane and appreciate how much money we are saving. Then between 1-200 people a day, seeing me pass them in the diamond lane, who were not comfortable with a small three wheeler, will be more open to the idea.
 

RSchneider

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This was one of the limits on early Smart sales.
The Smart was crash tested and passed well before it was ever sold in the US. The Elio will not be officially crash tested. The IIHS will test it and that will determine how good of a job Elio did. Since there's over 65K guaranteed sales for the first year, Elio will be just fine until that independent test. Even though the Smart was considered just fine by the US Govt and the IIHS, the general public did not agree and thus we see what happened to those sales.

What will help is that at least 10 of the reservation holders here will crash their Elio. It might not be their fault but it's going to happen. When they come on here and say how that F150 plowed into their Elio and they walked away without a scratch, that will sell the Elio. It's not if it'll happen, just when.
 

AriLea

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Oh about used cars vs the Elio. Many-many cash strapped people are going to finance. You can get much better rates on new cars.
This will likely make a $11k Eli cost less than a $7k used car per month. At that point the gas costs will be a huge decision factor in Elio's favor. So how much is a reliable 84mpg new car worth compared to a $3k used, rickety, gas guzzler? That's about the same cost per month for people who drive some distance.

This fun, I actually kind of miss the Elio debates!
(sometimes we sound like we are arguing, but off-times are actually complementing)
 

RUCRAYZE

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Anyone remember the 5 star safety rating as one of the early claims?? well, it was a bit off the mark. Just as M.C. there will be no safety rating assigned, as it will not be tested to so achieve such a rating. Anyone notice it is no longer one of the "must haves?, Personally, I have no problem with it. All the 55yrs of bike riding- 2 falls and one t-boned, makes the E (in these senior's eyes- gonna be 76) a very safe ride.
 

RSchneider

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Oh about used cars vs the Elio. Many-many cash strapped people are going to finance. You can get much better rates on new cars.
This will likely make a $11k Eli cost less than a $7k used car per month. At that point the gas costs will be a huge decision factor in Elio's favor. So how much is a reliable 84mpg new car worth compared to a $3k used, rickety, gas guzzler? That's about the same cost per month for people who drive some distance.

This fun, I actually kind of miss the Elio debates!
(sometimes we sound like we are arguing, but off-times are actually complementing)
The cash strapped do not look long term and using logic. Your point is valid in a perfect world but in the real world doesn’t happen. There’s a reason why in areas of low income, plenty of $3k to $5k cars exist. Same thing goes for mileage. Not in the immediate need.

This is assuming The Elio gets the mileage they claim and at the price. As we have seen, Elio is ready to change the specs because it’s perfectly legal to do. 84 mpg, show me a 3 wheeler that can do to it using the same exact standard that Elio is benchmarking itself right now.
 

CrimsonEclipse

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not to get into a P_ _ing match, but there are a heap of great used cars <10k
NO One is gonna walk out the door at $7500. Transportation/delivery fees, taxes, and with no automatic??
and this, just like the rest of us here- is just a guess, it won't be $7500- will have to be more as, inflation, for whatever reasons, continue to rise.
Paul might call it now primary transportation, but too may obstacles- three wheel will be a hard sell, no rear window, one door and only one set of golf clubs fits the trunk, :-)- Lucky if a recycled box from Costco will fit.
and the worse case - an accident in which rear passenger dies. No big deal with a motorcycle death, it has accident/death factored in by the public.
FWIW all these kids on 140hp rice burners, tee shirt and no helmet, weaving on the interstates gains no points in the "publics" eye.

The market is for someone who wants the economy of a motorcycle with the safety of a car.
THEN it really is a primary transportation for the working class.
Milinneals, are more likely to be minimalist that the Baby Boom generation.... add that to the inherently dangerous characteristics of motorcycles and mopeds (3000% increase in death per mile according to the NTSB) and the fact that they don't even LIKE golf, and the Elio actually sounds like a winner.
BTW, what do you think happens when you're rear ended on a motorcycle?
How is that No Big Deal?


A few things to remember, the average cost of a brand new Elio is $10,800. This is according to what Paul Elio has said. He did not include shipping and destination charges, so let's just add $400 onto that for a total of $11,200 on average for what people will pay for a brand new Elio. Only information I can find on compact cars are that the average price for a three year unit is about $13,500. I can't find information on subcompact but I'd suspect the number would be lower but on the other hand, cars like Aston Martin are considered a subcompact, thus finding a real accurate number would be a challenge.

With that being said, a 3 year old CPO car can be had without a problem. I know we have covered this many times but those conversations are dated. So I just took a look at what I could buy locally (within 50 miles) right now and only a CPO. Plus, used cars don't have shipping and destination charges and you can talk down a dealer at least $500 which you cannot for Elio.
  1. 2016 VW Jetta that has 50K on the clock for $11,499​
  2. 2015 VW Jetta that has 26K on the clock for $11,780​
  3. 2016 Ford Fiesta with 23K on the clock for $11,550​
  4. 2014 Chevy Sonic with 51K on the clock for $9,660​
  5. 2016 Chevy Sonic with 12K on the clock for $10,950​
  6. 2015 Chevy Sonic with 46K on the clock for $11,000​

Paul Elio has admitted that the Elio is an “and” car. That means, the second cheap car you drive during the week and then use that big SUV/Pickup for hauling around the family on the weekend. That's the market he's going after because he's repeated the “and car” a number of times. For an “and car”, people will look into the car's I listed above, not a $30K used SUV. As for the poor that need to get out of the poverty cycle (as per Paul Elio) the cars above will compete against the Elio, not a $25K used crossover.

When Elio Motors brings up the $19K average used price, it goes against what Paul Elio says. Elio Motors needs to be comparing compact and subcompact cars, not Pickups and SUV's.​

So you're comparing used cars to a new car. It's not really a competition.
When buying a Elio, I can chose to get a car with no options, in which the price can be $2000 less by my choice and it's no comparison, the Elio wins by a mile.
And it would be a new car and not a time bomb buying someone else's problems and option choices AND assuming the car wasn't mistreated and abused.

When buying an Elio, I have a choice of options... or no options.
When buying from a traditional dealer, I can buy what they want me to have.
Even if the prices were equal, the Elio is still the clear choice.
 
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