Disturbing

[toxotes]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet

 

[ks6c]

Until contracts are signed, cash paid out it is all meaningless babble with the so called suppliers. No supplier ramps up production with out some form of payment arrangement made. It just does not happen anymore.
You can dream all you want but it is what it is. Until EM can put cash on the table no supplier will do much to increase production to supply them.

Who is providing or paying for the engineering & design resources? That's not a rhetorical question - I really don't know the details.

But I've always had the impression that the suppliers are providing most, if not all, of those resources just from the tone of the blogs that have dealt with the summits and the design philosophy of designing as a team. Which blog was it in the past year that discussed how the suppliers were actually working with each other up front to ensure parts fit by design, rather than making changes after the fact that would cause "best in design" compromises? There is a lot of work going on between these summits that requires a lot of dedicated resources, and companies won't provide those resources to just anybody.

Has Elio paid for all of the design work with IAV? Again, I don't know the answer to that question so it's not bait, I just remember discussions about how engine development was a cost to the schedule in terms of delay but I don't recall any references to it being a budget buster.

I have to respectfully disagree with the thought that businesses would allow their names to be used by anybody "with the credit" because there is way too much at stake with their own branding and company reputation if they allow their names to be associated with a "pipe dream", a "scam", or any of the other negatives we've heard used wrt Elio. Actually, I think I'm seeing quite the opposite - they see this as the next big thing and don't want to be left behind WHEN, NOT IF, the Elio is successful.

Nope, even if these suppliers are being paid for their design efforts, they seem to have a lot of skin in the game and that alone gives me confidence in the project. I don't see this as one man's dream, I see this as a very large group effort to break the industry's paradigms.

 

[WilliamH]

Until contracts are signed, cash paid out it is all meaningless babble with the so called suppliers. No supplier ramps up production with out some form of payment arrangement made. It just does not happen anymore.
You can dream all you want but it is what it is. Until EM can put cash on the table no supplier will do much to increase production to supply them.

Are we losing Smitty901 to the Dark Side?

 

[JEBar]

Until contracts are signed, cash paid out it is all meaningless babble with the so called suppliers. No supplier ramps up production with out some form of payment arrangement made. It just does not happen anymore.
You can dream all you want but it is what it is. Until EM can put cash on the table no supplier will do much to increase production to supply them.

and you know all of the details of the specifics of the arrangements between EM and its suppliers from first hand info by having attended the sessions .... amazing, truly amazing

 

[Smitty901]

EM has no real money . They are still waiting and betting on what is to come. I hope they get it. I am willing to help them get it. But hiding your heads in the sand is foolish. EM is broke flat out in the tank broke at this point. They do not have nor any hope of having the money to go into production at this point.
The funds for advance reservation is already spent and or spoke for. No supplier will extend credit to anyone in the situation in todays market.
We know nothing about IVA and what is going on with the engine. We know it was not cheap to do we don't know if EM has paid the bill or not.
You can bet if they have not IVA has some power over them.
PB still has no said one word publicly about EM.
Maybe when EM sees many are not buying the marketing hype anymore they will get serious about moving on. Read the Emails they send out nothing but babble.

 

[Rickb]

Until contracts are signed, cash paid out it is all meaningless babble with the so called suppliers. No supplier ramps up production with out some form of payment arrangement made. It just does not happen anymore.
You can dream all you want but it is what it is. Until EM can put cash on the table no supplier will do much to increase production to supply them.

There is no need for supplier contracts and or payments for future Elio parts until after the P5-30s are built, tested, and a final Engineering prototype is closer to completion from which to determine a finalized parts list. Lots of planning time and summits remaining for suppliers to gear up and be ready to meet EM's future parts needs. Until that point it's better to listen to babble and know the lights are on while someone is manning the office space waiting for free money.

 

[Kuda]

There is no need for supplier contracts and or payments for future Elio parts until after the P5-30s are built, tested, and a final Engineering prototype is closer to completion from which to determine a finalized parts list. Lots of planning time and summits remaining for suppliers to gear up and be ready to meet EM's future parts needs. Until that point it's better to listen to babble and know the lights are on while someone is manning the office space waiting for free money.
View attachment 6255

The fact that suppliers are willing to invest 'sweat equity', i.e. Supplier Summits, etc.
Speaks loudly of their faith in the man & his vision & his team. If this were a sinking
ship the mice would have left long ago.............

 

[Rickb]

Every reason for partners to continue supporting EM. I wish any one of the largest supplier would kick in some venture capital to speed the process along.

 

[JCar]

What disturbs me the most is public ignorance over the significance of "lower gas prices" and the impression that oil gets "more plentiful" as they fall, which is ridiculous when you understand that it's finite at any price. Geologists know that oil gets scarcer under the ground by 80-90 million barrels each day, no matter how it's priced after people pull it out. I'm sure investors would be more enthusiastic about funding Elio if gas was back over $4/gallon.

Will geological ignorance keep people apathetic about the constant need for a fuel-saving car? Mr. Elio's original inspiration was the 2008 price spike that followed a major 2005/2006 plateau in global crude oil production. He probably assumed, as did many, that oil would keep getting more costly, but unexpected factors have lowered oil prices for the time being. Here is some interesting analysis vs. the usual Peak Oil runaway price scenario. I'm sure oil will rise again, but in time to motivate serious financing?

 

[tim]

I think that's conjecture Smitty. If I wanted to grow my business, let alone not end up the laughing stock of the automotive industry I really don't see the incentive for companies like Dakkota, Peterson Spring, Irvin, Lear, etc, etc, etc to have anything to do with Elio Motors..... unless they reasonably believe Elio Motors has a shot, and will fight as hard as they can to succeed. I'd have to question any business that lightly gave away brand quality as you suggest. I also wonder if Elio really needs $300 million, or if they've learned to over state what they need so that they have some slack to maneuver and it definitely looks better if they "over" capitalize. I think Tesla was fully capitalized at $400 million and they had all spanking new technology, while Elio is virtually a little Frankenwagen with off the shelf parts and no new technology - just a smart way of putting existing stuff together.

I agree this time last year Elio was boasting he'd be in or just about in production by now, and PE ate crow in January as we all know, and said he was wrong, he messed up and had a cracked crystal ball. I don't know what he thought he had lined up for funding, but I think he thought he had something. I also think, since the engine testing, despite the lack of fanfare, there has been some sort of financial energy happening. I think Elio has gotten smarter, and is keeping his mouth shut and only saying something when it's in the bag.

Those are just my opinions, I welcome yours.

A lot of interesting comments here, everyone has their own opinions, wants and desires about Elio motors, some have paid like they said for a shirt and sticker, some like me have paid the all in like me. The dates keep getting pushed back and we still get the same rhetoric in email form every day or so. I got a few people's feathers ruffled by asking things in my own brash way and i apologize. All want is what I assume/hope that it will be produced one day before I die. It is a good idea and will sell if produced. BUT I am not a dreamer and don't keep looking at my calendar to see how many days till I get it. I hope it happens, and have also realized that the $1000 could also be gone never to be seen again. If it happens and is produced I will get one, if it doesn't happen, then like everyone else here, I will be out money, but that said, I also knew this coming into it. Was/Is a risk.

There is a lot to hash out to make these things no matter how many parts pulled off the shelf, lets just hope it happens and Paul and his henchman are sincere and doing the right things, it is very easy to throw out a few press releases, shake some politicians hands, cut the ribbon on an empty building while promising all is good. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Good luck and best wishes to all of us, Paul Elio, if you read these blogs, do the right thing, don't bullshit us and how about some real good honest news instead of the usual PR polished up crap that was spun up by your team of minions.

Anyone want to buy a tshirt and sticker size extra large??? Still have it wrapped up in the box, will pull it out when mine rolls into my garage