Road & Track Livestreams A Test Drive Of The P5. And The Fender Falls Off... :(

[Ekh]

I was thinking the same thing. Why they didn't put a simple pin in there is beyond me. In fact, if you had rubber tips on the car's attachment points (those two poles that stick up) and arranged it where you had to press down pretty good to get the clevis pin holes to line up, the rubber would maintain pressure on the clevis thus keeping rattles to a minimum.

In fact, I just asked Elio that same question... well, suggested the change, anyway. I'll come back and let you guys know their response.

Since you aren't going to be changing a wheel by the roadside (no jack and no spare) there is no reason not to use pins instead of allen bolts... except perhaps for noise control.

 

[Ekh]

Road and Track (RT) is the pinnacle of car reviews. A lot of people can post car reviews on the internet but they mean nothing compared to RT. It is the most important of all reviews…..and EM blew it.

RT cited several specific problems. These problems did not occur for the first time during this test. They preexisted and were know.

RT said they smelled gasoline throughout the drive. That aroma of gasoline was present before the test meaning it was a known problem and nothing was done to correct it.

RT said the exhaust rattled which it did (we could hear it). That rattle was present before the test meaning it was a known problem and nothing was done to correct it.

RT said the shift linkage was “wonky”. That shift characteristic was present before the test meaning it was a known problem and nothing was done to correct it.

These were all known problems and nothing was done about them. These repairs would have been easy and inexpensive: visit a muffler shop, visit a transmission shop, have a mechanic look at the fuel lines. (I made comment months ago bout the shift linkage found at the Mohave tour stop and simple action needed to repair it. http://www.elioowners.com/threads/mojave-ca-tour-stop.7227/ )

The attitude of some people may be “If EM doesn’t care about their all important center stage, show piece vehicle, why would they care about my vehicle? You can tell people all you want “It is only a prototype” but people will still associate its (P5) quality with the quality of the final product. It is understandable that something is not hooked up and not working yet. However anything that is working should be working properly.

RT bent over backwards to try to make the Elio look as good as possible. They cared more about the vehicle’s image than EM did. Their attitude next time may be: “If EM doesn’t car about the vehicle‘s image, why should I?”

RT is so preeminent in the automotive world, someone of corporate level should have been there along with Jerome. Perhaps Paul Elio himself should have been present.

A favorable review by RT is worth millions of advertising dollars. It is the most important of all reviews…..and EM blew it.

I hope you have sent this as a letter directly to Elio. They need to get this message.

 

[Ekh]

15 months? It's original roll out was November 19th, 2015 at the LA Auto Show; maybe 8 months?

Plenty long enough to take a week and deal with the annoying little crap that makes it a problem car instead of a model car

 

[LillyMayPatterson #1685 & #5648]

Of course your right again Coss. I guess that is why we put up with you, lol. The P-5 was launched June 19, the same day Reg A+ started. Indeed, I was wrong. But, still 8 months is a long time to ignore rattles in the prime grand show piece. But, lets move on. As long as nobody but the tour team drives it ever again, I'll be happy.

 

[WilliamH]

Since you aren't going to be changing a wheel by the roadside (no jack and no spare) there is no reason not to use pins instead of allen bolts... except perhaps for noise control.

But you may have to put air in the tire at some point so you have to be able to get at the valve stem.

 

[pistonboy]

But you may have to put air in the tire at some point so you have to be able to get at the valve stem.

If they put the valve stem on the inside, it may be more accessible, but that may require a custom rim and they want to use off the shelf parts.

 

[Ty]

Oh, hmm, given this is testing and possible upgrading, I suspect it's actually E1A to E23A. Then if something is adjusted on E1, it becomes E1B to better designate what version is given to which test.
In this case I suppose a B would be a specific kind of adjustment. So a E1B and E2B both have the same upgrades.

Of course, we now know that E1 means the Engineering version and the following letter denotes the sequence. Via email today, Elio posted the build sequence, testing types, etc.

They are building the 23 in 2 blocks. 5 are in the first block and 18 in the second block.

I don't have access to the email from here. (blocked, of course)
Of the first 5,
E1A went to Continental
another will be the benchmark (E1B, I believe)
another will be doing wind tunnel work
two will be for frame testing or something. Dang, I should have forwarded that email here.
The last one will be for marketing. (Probably replacing the P5 on tour since it will be closer to the production version)

Anyway, the benchmark one is E1B but won't be finished before E1D and E1E which are going to be "finished" first as they won't be complete builds.

They went on to list exactly what tests each of the 23 will be used for. By the time I find a copy of the email, someone here will post it, I'm sure.

 

[Marshall]

Plenty long enough to take a week and deal with the annoying little crap that makes it a problem car instead of a model car

Of course, we now know that E1 means the Engineering version and the following letter denotes the sequence. Via email today, Elio posted the build sequence, testing types, etc.

They are building the 23 in 2 blocks. 5 are in the first block and 18 in the second block.

I don't have access to the email from here. (blocked, of course)
Of the first 5,
E1A went to Continental
another will be the benchmark (E1B, I believe)
another will be doing wind tunnel work
two will be for frame testing or something. Dang, I should have forwarded that email here.
The last one will be for marketing. (Probably replacing the P5 on tour since it will be closer to the production version)

Anyway, the benchmark one is E1B but won't be finished before E1D and E1E which are going to be "finished" first as they won't be complete builds.

They went on to list exactly what tests each of the 23 will be used for. By the time I find a copy of the email, someone here will post it, I'm sure.

I tried an failed to copy the EMAIL as well. But somebody here knows how because I've seen them before.

E1a - Braking/Traction - Continental - delivered 6/30/16

E1b - Integration/Match Car - Retained at the Pilot Center in Livonia, Mi. - under construction.

E1c - Marketing - Under Construction (will be completed AFTER the next two)

E1d - Chassis and Engine Testing - Under Construction.

E1e - Chassis and Engine Testing - Under Construction.

E1f-w still in pre-production.

The Next 18: Slamming, Skidding and Impact Testing Our Way to Success

Once we get through the brake, engine, and chassis tweaks, the real fun begins. Vehicles E1F through E1W will go through a gauntlet of tests for durability, aerodynamics, and safety. Here are just a few of the tests these vehicles will endure:

Wind Tunnel Testing

Reaching our target goal of up to 84 MPG requires maximizing our aerodynamics. This will require hours in the wind tunnel where minute details from the angle of the windshield to the width of the mirror will be tested and retested.

Extreme Temperature Tests

The Elio needs to work in the Phoenix heat, the Alaskan cold, and everything in between. We’ll test the vehicle in both extremes, making sure all the systems work properly whether its 120 degrees or minus 20 degrees.

Interior Driver Interaction

You’ve got to be comfortable in your Elio, right? We’ve got that covered too, as the E-Series will go through a litany of ergonomic tests to make sure the seats work and the controls are within reach.

Driveability

The E-Series will be tested for braking, cornering, acceleration, and top speed.

Door Slam/Deck Slam

How do you know the vehicle’s doors and trunk will work time and time again? Slam them shut over and over again. These tests will measure all the components in the door and trunk systems and how they stand up to long-term wear and tear.

Wiper Testing

Sure, it barely rains in our home in Phoenix, but we want people in Seattle to drive an Elio too! We’ll run the wipers again and again until they’re slappin’ out a tempo like the old Eddie Rabbit song to make sure that they work over the long haul.

Noise, Vibration, and Harshness

Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) testing is where we work on removing all the shakes, rattles and squeaks.

Paint Durability

We also want to make sure your Elio paint job lasts, too. We’ll go so far as pelting it with road salt and rocks to see how the paint job holds up.

Impact Testing

For those of you who remember Vince and Larry, the public service announcement crash dummies, well, maybe we’ve got a job for them here. Even though we are not required by law, safety testing is extremely important to our long-term goals. We’ll be taking the E-Series vehicles and subjecting them to many of the same rigorous impact tests that NHTSA mandates for vehicle manufacturers.

Like we said, it’s a gauntlet of tests. But, like those tough two-a-day practices that give a football team its edge, we’re in the vehicle version of training camp. And, we’ll work our tails off to make these the best vehicles possible.

 

[3wheelin]

Road and Track (RT) is the pinnacle of car reviews. A lot of people can post car reviews on the internet but they mean nothing compared to RT. It is the most important of all reviews…..and EM blew it.

RT cited several specific problems. These problems did not occur for the first time during this test. They preexisted and were know.

RT said they smelled gasoline throughout the drive. That aroma of gasoline was present before the test meaning it was a known problem and nothing was done to correct it.

RT said the exhaust rattled which it did (we could hear it). That rattle was present before the test meaning it was a known problem and nothing was done to correct it.

RT said the shift linkage was “wonky”. That shift characteristic was present before the test meaning it was a known problem and nothing was done to correct it.

These were all known problems and nothing was done about them. These repairs would have been easy and inexpensive: visit a muffler shop, visit a transmission shop, have a mechanic look at the fuel lines. (I made comment months ago bout the shift linkage found at the Mohave tour stop and simple action needed to repair it. http://www.elioowners.com/threads/mojave-ca-tour-stop.7227/ )

The attitude of some people may be “If EM doesn’t care about their all important center stage, show piece vehicle, why would they care about my vehicle? You can tell people all you want “It is only a prototype” but people will still associate its (P5) quality with the quality of the final product. It is understandable that something is not hooked up and not working yet. However anything that is working should be working properly.

RT bent over backwards to try to make the Elio look as good as possible. They cared more about the vehicle’s image than EM did. Their attitude next time may be: “If EM doesn’t car about the vehicle‘s image, why should I?”

RT is so preeminent in the automotive world, someone of corporate level should have been there along with Jerome. Perhaps Paul Elio himself should have been present.

A favorable review by RT is worth millions of advertising dollars. It is the most important of all reviews…..and EM blew it.

BIG TIME! I mean what the hell is going on at EM? The P2 is suppose to be an improvement from P1, P3 is suppose to be an improvement from P3, P4 is suppose to be an improvement from P3, P5 is suppose to be an improvement from P4? Right now I'm thinking they are improving the "LOOKS" and not the "FUNCTION" of the ELIO! I mean these are experts in the field of automotive for crying out loud and none, I mean none of those problems was addressed! I say Prototype my a__! I'm sorry but it's just frustrating to see this, and now they are just in the process of subjecting the e-series for "wind tunnel" testing?????? Isn't that one of the first and important thing that they should have tested once they have a working P1, P2 or P3 since EM is touting a 84mpg trike?? That's what happens when these prototype spends more time delivered in a truck from shows to shows instead of actually driving it! Yap, it sure look sharp and shiny as a new coin at the shows but drive like sh__! Please pardon my frustration.

 

[Sethodine]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype

A good read.