Momentum V134

[wizard of ahs]

I"m going to order a couple of spare battery packs! Why would you ever replace a battery pack? I'm old and I don't have enough drive time to log on a total of 400, 000 miles. Buy what you like, Like what you drive. If everybody liked the same car and drivetrain we'd all be driving old technology Elio's.

I plan on burning more rubber with my EV.
.

Yea, burning rubber is easy in EVs, all that torque available RIGHT NOW

Cost of battery replacement for Chevy Volt...$15,734.29. 6/15/2017 Transport Evolved. Plus...major battery degradation problems! Plus...EVs have already been around for 180+ years... something better always comes along than the EV according to history. Battery hatred goes WAY back!

To put that in prospective, GM has NOT replaced 1 battery on the Volt. Some (only a handful) have had "partial" battery replacements (segments). GM has engineered the battery system so well, there is at least 1 Volt that has over 400,000 miles on it with no battery degradation. GM left a buffer at the bottom and top of the battery so it never really FULLY charges or discharges.

 

[Burg]

A coworker just bought a used Prius. He got a good deal so he splurged on a new battery as the car had over 80 miles on it. Battery swap was under $3k with labor. Sound reasonable to me considering he should have been able to go another 80K miles on the orrginal battery.

 

[Ace]

A coworker just bought a used Prius. He got a good deal so he splurged on a new battery as the car had over 80 miles on it. Battery swap was under $3k with labor. Sound reasonable to me considering he should have been able to go another 80K miles on the orrginal battery.

This is my first post here but I have been lurking around for a month or two. The perceived animosity between the EV and ICE folks is interesting and confusing.

I hear what you are saying here about battery costs falling, but this makes no financial sense to me. I could probably buy 2.5 years worth of gas for $3000.

 

[Rob Croson]

GM left a buffer at the bottom and top of the battery so it never really FULLY charges or discharges.

For the Bolt, the 60kWh specification for the battery is the "usable capacity". It's not that the battery only has 60kWh and that's it. They just program the controller so that 60kWh is all you get. This lets the system manage battery capacity to prevent overcharging, account for some degradation, and compensate for any other irregular cells. It also allows them meet the 60kWh claim even if some manufacturing irregularities cause some cells to fall below the optimal spec. If you build a battery that is really 60 kWH and claim it as that, then even a 1% dip below that means you're not delivering what you claim. Build it to 65 kWh and sell it as 60 kWh, then you've got some decent cushion to account for manufacturing irregularities and some initial degradation. Keeps everyone happy.

I would be surprised if other EV manufacturers didn't do something similar. It is known that Tesla built some Model S cars with bigger battery packs that were software limited because they buyers didn't shell out big bucks for the extended range option. This was in the news during the recent Florida hurricanes when Tesla remotely unlocked the extra capacity for Florida Model S owners who might be fleeing the hurricanes.

 

[Rickb]

This is my first post here but I have been lurking around for a month or two. The perceived animosity between the EV and ICE folks is interesting and confusing.

I hear what you are saying here about battery costs falling, but this makes no financial sense to me. I could probably buy 2.5 years worth of gas for $3000.

Welcome Ace! My next vehicle is a reservation EV. I'm fascinated by EV's primarily based on their performance......instant torque. My anticipated low total cost to operate over the lifetime of the vehicle and electrics being somewhat helpful to OUR environment are secondary. I don't plan on having to replace a battery no more than I plan to replace the engine in my I.C.E. vehicle. The batteries are manufacturer warranted and if there is an issue beyond the warranty or after 150-400K gas/routine maintenance free money savings miles, individual cells can be replaced, not the entire battery. I like the idea of No More Gas.

 

[wizard of ahs]

Welcome Ace! My next vehicle is a reservation EV. I'm fascinated by EV's primarily based on their performance......instant torque. My anticipated low total cost to operate over the lifetime of the vehicle and electrics being somewhat helpful to OUR environment are secondary. I don't plan on having to replace a battery no more than I plan to replace the engine in my I.C.E. vehicle. The batteries are manufacturer warranted and if there is an issue beyond the warranty or after 150-400K gas/routine maintenance free money savings miles, individual cells can be replaced, not the entire battery. I like the idea of No More Gas.

INSTANT torque is VERY cool My Volt still uses gas, but it WAS July when I last put some in

 

[Burg]

This is my first post here but I have been lurking around for a month or two. The perceived animosity between the EV and ICE folks is interesting and confusing.

I hear what you are saying here about battery costs falling, but this makes no financial sense to me. I could probably buy 2.5 years worth of gas for $3000.

Financial sense is a moving target. I spend over $3k in gas a year with my old truck, so it would make financial sense. Also consider that the routine maintenance on an ICE is generally more costly than an EV in the first 100K.

The average consumer dose NOT do their own car maintenance so consider these additional issues at 100K miles:

1. Oil changes. The number used to be 3000 miles then 5000. That will be 20 scheduled visits for about $400-$800. The EV... Not
2. Plugs and wires recommended in the first 100,000. $200. EV... Not
   
3. Breaks. At least 2 trips in the first 100,000. Figure $200 per visit so call it $400. The EV regenerative brakes may cut that as well.
   
4. When you get to that 100K mark you get that big "recommended" service bill. Timing belts are recommended by 100K miles. Maybe you car has a chain so you could cut that out. Some recommend replacing the water pump. Figure $600- $800 for the timing belt only or $900- $1100 for both....EV Not.
   
5. Other possible expenses that the ICE can encounter in the first 100,000 include a catalytic converter and automatic transmission as some of the more expensive possibilities.

Im not saying your wrong by any means, Im just pointing out some of the differences.

 

[ABC123]

We have two hybrids, a Lincoln MKZ and a Toyota Camry. What affects the batteries the most is temperature. When we can make it up the hill to our house under battery power only is the official start of spring for us. Both have MPGs close to 38.5 over all their miles. Not sure that a full EV makes sense for us.

 

[Sailor Dog]

Financial sense is a moving target. I spend over $3k in gas a year with my old truck, so it would make financial sense. Also consider that the routine maintenance on an ICE is generally more costly than an EV in the first 100K.

The average consumer dose NOT do their own car maintenance so consider these additional issues at 100K miles:

1. Oil changes. The number used to be 3000 miles then 5000. That will be 20 scheduled visits for about $400-$800. The EV... Not
2. Plugs and wires recommended in the first 100,000. $200. EV... Not
   
3. Breaks. At least 2 trips in the first 100,000. Figure $200 per visit so call it $400. The EV regenerative brakes may cut that as well.
   
4. When you get to that 100K mark you get that big "recommended" service bill. Timing belts are recommended by 100K miles. Maybe you car has a chain so you could cut that out. Some recommend replacing the water pump. Figure $600- $800 for the timing belt only or $900- $1100 for both....EV Not.
   
5. Other possible expenses that the ICE can encounter in the first 100,000 include a catalytic converter and automatic transmission as some of the more expensive possibilities.

Im not saying your wrong by any means, Im just pointing out some of the differences.

Didn't want to say anything tonight but I feel compelled to address the points you made:

1. Synthetic oil has a 10,000 mile interval, Consumer Reports recommended 7,500 on conventional oil after testing on NYC cabs 10+ years ago.
2. 6 iridium (high end) plugs on a 07 Honda Odyssey, $56 on Amazon... this weekend's easy installation @ 105,500 on odometer.
3. Averaging 50-60,000 on the brakes...still on 2nd set... original lasted over 62k. So only 1 replacement so far.
4. Need to do timing belt soon! ELIO will have a timing chain...no replacement.
5. Catalytic converter & automatic transmission? Didn't do either on a 210,000 mile retired Toyota Echo & don't expect to on the Honda Odyssey or the 45k miles 2011 Prius.
6. Go ELIO!!!

 

[Coss]

Didn't want to say anything tonight but I feel compelled to address the points you made:

1. Synthetic oil has a 10,000 mile interval, Consumer Reports recommended 7,500 on conventional oil after testing on NYC cabs 10+ years ago.
2. 6 iridium (high end) plugs on a 07 Honda Odyssey, $56 on Amazon... this weekend's easy installation @ 105,500 on odometer.
3. Averaging 50-60,000 on the brakes...still on 2nd set... original lasted over 62k. So only 1 replacement so far.
4. Need to do timing belt soon! ELIO will have a timing chain...no replacement.
5. Catalytic converter & automatic transmission? Didn't do either on a 210,000 mile retired Toyota Echo & don't expect to on the Honda Odyssey or the 45k miles 2011 Prius.
6. Go ELIO!!!

I have to agree do a degree,
1) I just got the 2017 Dodge Journey, and they say to change oil at 10,000 miles intervals; when I do, it will get Castrol Synthetic, and haven't figured out what filter I want to use yet, was Fram, but there are some new ones I'm looking at.
2) Plugs? I'll usually use Bosch or E3's, still have time to think about that one
3) Brakes? I put in a Hi Performance Composite pad, but haven't had to change any in the last 3 cars I've owned, my S10 had 105K and the brakes were still good (mostly freeway miles) but I normally use a composite, Hi Performance brake product, they last under hard braking, but one of the first things I change are the brakes, change rotors to slotted (never a drilled) makes stopping a breeze.

I used to drive 85 percent freeway, and it's easy on a vehicle, if it's set up for it, do the Hi Performance brakes, and use an oil you trust (I've used Castrol since I first drove, and won't change, it's never failed) but most importantly use what works for your style of driving; what do you drive most? Highway? City? Or a mix of the two (and be honest with it, don't guess).
Most of the people are Freeway commuters, and that because that's the way the cities are, unlike the East coast, and a lot of the Midwest where the cities are right next to each other, and most of the commuting is pretty much city driving. West coast, you've got at least 20 or 40 miles for a short hop. I came from the Midwest, but moved to the West coast in 1975, world of difference. So when you compare driving, you also have to include where your driving.
They didn't have many hills (mountains) to drive up and over, it was majority flat land, then the move to the Pacific NW and roads are a world of different driving conditions.
There is no comparison between East Coast and West Coast driving, they are completely different.

Ok I'm done rambling, carry on ......