Manual Or Power Steering?

[HHH]

first I've heard about timing for test drives other than when the stores open

Not quite so. See post number 9 on this thread going back to January 2014. It's the same correspondence from EM.

 

[HHH]

Here, here! And, well played, by the way!

I think we may be overstating the case a bit. The failure for GM was that far more vehicles succumbed to being switched off due to the design of the switch. Couple this with the fact that the air bags wouldn't deploy with the ignition in the "off" position, and the power steering pump and power brake boost aren't working, and an unskilled driver will careen into whatever is in front of them. I suspect most of the fatalities could have been avoided if the airbags had deployed. Manhandling a stalled car requires greater force when working against the power steering pump and no brake assist. It's really a matter of awareness and training. Sadly, I suspect the majority of drivers in our country only know automatic transmissions, power steering and power (disk) brakes.

Yes, the simpler Elio will bring us back to an earlier era, but I can see a counter-argument raised that power steering and brakes permit certain drivers the added capability to avoid some crisis situations.

 

[wheaters]

Sadly, I suspect the majority of drivers in our country only know automatic transmissions, power steering and power (disk) brakes.

Same here in UK.

My little two seat sports car (home built) has no power steering yet I can steer it with my finger tips. I also replaced the original twin leading shoe front drum brakes with disk brakes that I designed and built myself. There is no servo and no need for one either. The pedal needs quite a hard push compared to a more modern setup but the feel and control of the brakes is far more precise than with a servo fitted.

I just got back from a touring trip of around 2,500 miles with the car fully laden. We went by sea ferry to Northern Spain and through the Picos mountains along to the Pyrenees, where we crossed into France and back to the ferry ports to England. Even on the steepest downhill mountain hairpin roads, the car handled and braked superbly.

Oh, there's no air-con either. Not really needed because the car has a front windscreen but no other windows.....

 

[carzes]

power steering pump and power brake boost aren't working, and an unskilled driver will careen into whatever is in front of them.

I guess that is the heart of the question. An 'unskilled driver'.
I am no advocate for GM, but there are issues here that don't add up, and I am willing to ask politically incorrect questions.
What percentage of our drivers are 'unskilled'? for example. Why is it someone else's fault that they can't handle the same kind of vehicle malfunction that a 'skilled' driver can? Why do we allow 'unskilled' drivers on the road? Aren't they a danger to other drivers, and themselves? Have we NO expectation of a driver's ability to handle a vehicle emergency? Where do we draw the line? If my air conditioning goes out can I blame the manufacturer for crashing my car 'cause I had sweat in my eye?
I drove a car for a year that had the power steering pump disconnected. At anything over 5 mph you could barely tell the difference. There is no loss of steering unless the steering lock actually engaged, which I have not heard alledged. Brakes are a bit different I'll admit, but I still have to wonder how many accidents brake booster failure should cause? How much of my driving time am I in a position where booster failure will result in an accident? And a FATAL accident? Almost NEVER.
The scenario we are supposed to believe is that at the exact moment of highest brake booster dependence the ignition switch falls to the off position, shutting down the engine. And somehow the remaining vacuum in the system is insufficient to bring the vehicle at LEAST to a slow enough speed to make the resulting collision survivable without airbag deployment.
Again, I am no advocate for GM, but I'm not buying it. Is it possible that the ignition switch problem was found to be a convenient excuse for accidents that might have had nothing to do with it? A little coaching of the 'victims' and suddenly routine bad-driving accidents become a multi-million dollar lawsuit against GM. What is the more likely scenario? Does our legal system really work that way? You BET it does!
I know I'm about to get seriously flame-broiled for this, but I just don't accept everything at face value. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Jambe]

No. I wasn't stepping on the gas. I was stepping hard on the brakes.

 

[goofyone]

I guess that is the heart of the question. An 'unskilled driver'.
I am no advocate for GM, but there are issues here that don't add up, and I am willing to ask politically incorrect questions.
What percentage of our drivers are 'unskilled'? for example. Why is it someone else's fault that they can't handle the same kind of vehicle malfunction that a 'skilled' driver can? Why do we allow 'unskilled' drivers on the road? Aren't they a danger to other drivers, and themselves? Have we NO expectation of a driver's ability to handle a vehicle emergency? Where do we draw the line? If my air conditioning goes out can I blame the manufacturer for crashing my car 'cause I had sweat in my eye?
I drove a car for a year that had the power steering pump disconnected. At anything over 5 mph you could barely tell the difference. There is no loss of steering unless the steering lock actually engaged, which I have not heard alledged. Brakes are a bit different I'll admit, but I still have to wonder how many accidents brake booster failure should cause? How much of my driving time am I in a position where booster failure will result in an accident? And a FATAL accident? Almost NEVER.
The scenario we are supposed to believe is that at the exact moment of highest brake booster dependence the ignition switch falls to the off position, shutting down the engine. And somehow the remaining vacuum in the system is insufficient to bring the vehicle at LEAST to a slow enough speed to make the resulting collision survivable without airbag deployment.
Again, I am no advocate for GM, but I'm not buying it. Is it possible that the ignition switch problem was found to be a convenient excuse for accidents that might have had nothing to do with it? A little coaching of the 'victims' and suddenly routine bad-driving accidents become a multi-million dollar lawsuit against GM. What is the more likely scenario? Does our legal system really work that way? You BET it does!
I know I'm about to get seriously flame-broiled for this, but I just don't accept everything at face value. Maybe I'm wrong?

I understand and agree with you. The GM ignition switch issue is not the first widely publicized issue we have seen where a failure is compounded by peoples inability to cope with the situation correctly leading to serious injury and death. I always remember scratching my head at the Ford Explorer Firestone tire issue which killed and seriously inured a number of people. Firestone and Ford ended up paying a huge financial price for an issue which at most should just have been a normal recall to replace some tires which were failing at a higher than normal rate.

Tread separation and tire blowouts happen all the time and while the Firestone tires were suffering failures at a higher than average rate the real issue which caused most of the vehicles to go out of control was people suddenly releasing the accelerator and slamming on the brakes which is exactly the opposite of what they should have done. The correct procedure for handling a blowout is slowly release the accelerator and staying off the brakes while looking where you want the vehicle to go and steering smoothly and appropriately to get there. I even remember 20/20 and Dateline eventually running segments where they demonstrated a blowout on a Ford Explorer and the difference between correctly responding to the situation and driving safely away or responding incorrectly and going for a wild ride.

I have personally experienced, and seen many more, normal blowouts on the road and high speed blowouts while driving on a race track in excess of 150 MPH. As long as it did not happen in the middle of a high speed turn or similar situation drivers just followed the correct procedure and coasted to a safe enough speed to allow them to drive off the track or drive back to the pits on the wounded rim.

 

[wheaters]

Many years ago, in my teenage years, I had a 1964 BSA motorbike. I was out in the hills with my girlfriend on the pillion seat. The rear tyre blew out as we were going flat out downhill, about 85 mph. On a spoked wheel with a tubed tyre, the tyre really does lose it's pressure instantly.

The next few seconds were interesting to say the least. The bike wanted to crab sideways and wagged its tail like a mad thing. At one stage we were on the grass verge.i was hanging on for grim death, knowing that if I braked we were off the bike.

As if this wasn't interesting enough my girlfriend thought I was messing about to frighten her. So she started yelling blue murder and pummelling me on the back!

I kept the bike upright and brought it safely to a standstill. The problem was caused by a bent nail which had chewed the inner tube to pieces.

Looking back, we were very lucky to be in one piece. Thankfully I had learned to ride off-road when I was eleven years old and was used to handling a bike on mud and wet grass. Without that experience I would have been poorly placed.

 

[fpelsdca]

Many years ago, in my teenage years, I had a 1964 BSA motorbike. I was out in the hills with my girlfriend on the pillion seat. The rear tyre blew out as we were going flat out downhill, about 85 mph. On a spoked wheel with a tubed tyre, the tyre really does lose it's pressure instantly.

The next few seconds were interesting to say the least. The bike wanted to crab sideways and wagged its tail like a mad thing. At one stage we were on the grass verge.i was hanging on for grim death, knowing that if I braked we were off the bike.

As if this wasn't interesting enough my girlfriend thought I was messing about to frighten her. So she started yelling blue murder and pummelling me on the back!

I kept the bike upright and brought it safely to a standstill. The problem was caused by a bent nail which had chewed the inner tube to pieces.

Looking back, we were very lucky to be in one piece. Thankfully I had learned to ride off-road when I was eleven years old and was used to handling a bike on mud and wet grass. Without that experience I would have been poorly placed.

Wheaters, my hat is off to you. I do believe this is the best "Blow-Out" story I have heard. Congrats for being able to live through it, and at 85 mph downhill. Did the girlfriend make it up to you after she found out that you had saved her life???

 

[wheaters]

She married me in 1977.

As punishment......

 

[fpelsdca]

She married me in 1977.

As punishment......

I was thinking of asking you if she married you. Double congrats!!!