Dangers Ahead??

[AriLea]

Sorry to rain on your parade, dielk, but: what if, what if, WHAT IF. . . . . And the "whatif's" can go on forever.

My grandkids have asked this to me about 50times, but in different ways.. What IF the sun blew-up! ,,, and I'm like OK, that's not too likely, but yes, then it does and that would be bad. But it hasn't in about 5billion years, so don't spend much worry on that.

Now on the States thing, the Elio will be exceptionally popular, no mater what automakers do. That's in the bag. And given the public benefit, no one state will want to be left out, and no state will want to seem too backward on the issue. All the stragglers on this will adjust(for all issues big and small, what, half a dozen?), likely way before day 1 deliveries. EM is highly motivated, very active, and determined it will be all right, and they have very little distance left to go.

 

[AriLea]

sorry- the point I was trying to make was how a death of a driver in a ELIO specifically will be perceived/publized. Did I know I would be slammed by some for this post-sure, and thanks for your point of view- lets agree to diagree. BTW I can't wait to get mine- all in 1k.One of my color options will be which, on the human light spectrum, will most easily be seen by other drivers- thinking the green

It's a very well known story line in the industry, one that the Corvair went though, and was crushed, partly. But these days, it's pretty well settled how to deal with it. And part of any startup must work it into their planning. I guarantee that EM has stomped all the wheat down in the fields doing their planning around that subject. They have as much chance as GM at this point. OK, a bit better chance than GM. Given the 3 wheel platform of the Elio, for one, you need your science and product testing well conceived. EM is WAY ahead on that point.

 

[goofyone]

i don't know if it has been stated somewhere else in the forum or not, about the difference between the mc, trike, 3 wheel vehicle and car should be addressed. don't know how many states have gotten on board with this but fl recently enacted new dmv regs to include a 3 wheel vehicle, that is not a converted mc to a trike. it is seperate from cars but has much of the same requirements for safety components and devices that is required for cars. the question is wheather elio legal department is addressing each states unique rules pertaining to 3 wheel vehicles that are in no way a mc but yet being manufactured to be sold as a motorcycle under federal regulations. if the elio bill of sale says mc, it cannot be regeistered in fl as a trike, since it never was a mc to begin with and cannot be registered as a 3 wheel vehicle, since it was manufactured as a mc. hate to sound negative but this could be a problem for future fl owners. maybe other states too.

Elio Motors has a team working on the legal issues in each state and is working on addressing them as necessary. This team is led by the EM Government Affairs VP, Joel Sheltrown, and he maintains a list of any legal issues or hurdles Elio Motors faces in every state.

I have also reviewed what FL says and it actually does not say that if the bill of sale says it is a motorcycle then it can not be registered. The law defines what FL considers to be autocycles, which FL labels Tri-vehicles. Trikes which do not meet these standards are generally considered three-wheel motorcycles and are instead registered as such. The Elio would however qualify as a Tri-vehicle and not as a three wheel motorcycle.

Where the confusion appears to stem from is that FL DMV regulations state that "Only NHTSA-approved tri-vehicles from authorized manufacturers, importers, and distributors may be titled and registered". This is actually fairly strightfoward even if it sounds confusing as we already know that the NHTSA considers all powered three wheeled vehicles to be motorcycles. As such all NHTSA approved tri-vehicles have a motorcycle VIN and are sold as motorcycles regardless of how the state of FL chooses to classify them as Tri-vehicles.

By the way you can read about this here: http://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/TL/TL-67.PDF

 

[RUCRAYZE]

LOL, and you were there too. Life where is lived was easy going and little pressure. Not like today.

true, and you know what, my father used to say that, and my grand father!

 

[2.ooohhh]

I think unless the media finds evidence of some flaw that the elio engineers either covered up(ala GM ignitions switch) or was so patently obvious that they shouldn't have missed it(Mercedes biodegradable soy based wiring) the first wreck won't amount to a hill of beans.

ANY other high profile wreck that doesn't lead back directly to a flaw or oversight from the manufacturer only seems to increase public interest in the car in general.(No press is bad press and all that) With the case of some cars it's only made them more valuable/desirable.(Porsche 356 Speedster and Carrera GT spring to mind)

 

[Craig]

Life causes death

Now that's deeeeep.

 

[Craig]

1. I don't imagine the CEOs of Toyota, Honda, G.M. Shell, exxon, etc. will be present as the elios roll off the line, AAMOF, One court injuction claiming some infrigment, some union conflict, parts company, Pep Boys get bought by BMW could bring the whole process to a grinding halt. It is in their best interest that the elio never makes a car.
2 Flash-News Report
M.C. accident kills driver- no big news story basically no reaction hardly worth a mention.

jump off a cliff, jumping out an airplane, and die- small one time story too.

But how will the public/press /tv react when there is the first elio death on the road, all that great press goe's south?
It becomes a story no longer an accident - pick the headline- "Unsafe at anyspeed", "Was there enough government oversite in turning this unproven technology" etc. etc. "How were they allowed to Drive a MC without a helmet"- the press- "encourged" by lobbyists, will now go out of their way to manipulate the media.
Truth doesn't enter into this- it's perception

Example- everyone remembers the woman who sued Mc D because her coffee was too hot and burned herself
I and probably most folks thought just another nut trying to squeeze $. But it wasn't true -Confirmed Documentry of the story (netflix) shows very sever burns requiring long hospital stays and mulitpal skin grafts. Perception and spin is everything.

I'm just tossing it out, I want my cars and EM to be a major contributor/pioneer to the "new car industry", but there just might be some bumps........

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

You guys underestimate the media. How many "Deadly SUV" crashes have you heard about? Now how many "Deadly Smart Car" or "Deadly Prius" crashes?

I rest my case.

 

[AriLea]

You guys underestimate the media. How many "Deadly SUV" crashes have you heard about? Now how many "Deadly Smart Car" or "Deadly Prius" crashes? I rest my case.

OK, I will admit there used to be one flaw. The well known fact that a three-wheeler can be less stable than a four. This is true where all other things are equal. That could play out badly in the press, after an accident. But things are not all equal. (same pattern for the crash worthiness issues)

'Something' that plays out badly is what the Corvair suffered from, at least initially. (crash and handling issues)

But this is where science and testing comes into it's own. The verbal medicine against it (one of many fixes) is that an Elio, with it's 'special' Front wheel drive configuration and low center of gravity will do better at roll-over and corner handling than many (most, or ALL) SUV's, trucks and a many four door sedans(carefully picked sedans, of course). This can be proven out by skid-pad testing. (this gives expert backing to your point)

So on a three wheeler, it plays well to say you have 'the best configuration for safety' of all the three wheel configurations possible. I suggested this PR issue to Aptera about 4 months before they switched to FWD. I don't know if I influenced anything, but they did switch.

Tesla recently had this PR nightmare in the form of battery pack piercings and fires at a few accidents. They just had some very good statements about design and testing, and then addressed some obvious discontinuity in the accidents sited. It pretty well all blew over from a PR standpoint.

 

[skygazer6033]

Yes the Corvair was an unconventional design (at least from an American standpoint). Rear suspension design pretty much guaranteed instability if pressed in a hard curve. But if the Corvair had 3point seat belts, air bags and stability control it probably would faired much better. On the other hand the Elio is inherently a much more stable design and still standard with all the safety equipment. The only real safety concerns I see is low mass. A little more than a motorcycle but not as much as a car.