1/7/15 - Cult Of Mac (ces) - Sexy Sci-fi Car Get 84 Mpg

[JEBar]

Not only will you maybe have to wear a helmet if you're under 21 in Ohio (though I doubt it), you WILL NOT be able to buy the car in Ohio under the current (and newly revised) law. The state legislature made an exception for Tesla then slammed the door on anybody else to sell cars here WITHOUT SETTING UP A FRANCHISED DEALERSHIP.

if it was me, I'd set up factor dealership in big markets just over the Ohio state line .... that could serve the customers and deny Ohio some tax money

 

[ScarecrowRepair]

Is it possible that the cost discrepancy between US OBD II ECU and foreign is not in the ECU itself but in what sensors have to be added to the engine, or the development support for ECU features that are not critical to actually running efficiently? If the sensors are custom to each engine, then the new engine would require new sensors. If the ECU programming for the streaming features requires custom development and fine tuning, that could be several hundred thousand dollars up front and several months delay.

I don't know one way or another. But both seem plausible.

 

[LillyMayPatterson #1685 & #5648]

Not only will you maybe have to wear a helmet if you're under 21 in Ohio (though I doubt it), you WILL NOT be able to buy the car in Ohio under the current (and newly revised) law. The state legislature made an exception for Tesla then slammed the door on anybody else to sell cars here WITHOUT SETTING UP A FRANCHISED DEALERSHIP.

EM acknowledges this reality, mumbles they're pursuing it, but -- if you live in Ohio, you will wind up buying your car in kentucky or going to Shreveport to pick it up. Sorry if you don't like this, but it is the law -- and no way will Ohio back off the newly-revised law they just passed last May, no matter how much EM beg and whine.

And yes, it pisses me off, but the voters in this state are all Republicans, so we get what we deserve.

Naw, Look it up OHIO has more democracy than Republicans. We're the state that put obama in office Twice. The dealership problem is a non issue. Elio is a motorcycle. Besides that, it is no problem ordering on - line and traveling to our neighboring state to pick-up if need be. PA can use the money.
There is no reason the listen to mumbling, it's a non-issue. My family is planning to pick - up our vehicles in Shreveport. I'm not working. For a few bucks and gas money, I'll go and pick - up yours too.

 

[goofyone]

Is it possible that the cost discrepancy between US OBD II ECU and foreign is not in the ECU itself but in what sensors have to be added to the engine, or the development support for ECU features that are not critical to actually running efficiently? If the sensors are custom to each engine, then the new engine would require new sensors. If the ECU programming for the streaming features requires custom development and fine tuning, that could be several hundred thousand dollars up front and several months delay.

I don't know one way or another. But both seem plausible.

That is some good logical thinking however I can tell you the sensors themselves are off-the-shelf and the data is standardized which is how generic devices can use the data in cars that do support sensor data streaming over the OBD-II port.

Compliance with first world car emissions standards does require cars to have more sensors than are truly needed just for the engine to run efficiently so there could be a source of cost savings for EM by leaving some of those extra sensors out however the ECU is likely already essentially set up to run on a minimum set of sensors as I doubt Indian car manufacturers are building their cars to first world standards.

As I have written I do not yet have the details as to exactly why the streaming sensor data is not available but just have been given the general information that issue is with the ECU not supporting streaming sensor data output via the OBD-II port. Unfortunately, due to an NDA, it is likely I will not be able to discuss the technical details of what is happening even when I can gain access to them.

 

[Ekh]

if it was me, I'd set up factor dealership in big markets just over the Ohio state line .... that could serve the customers and deny Ohio some tax money

There was a thread on this earlier. Many Ohio residents do buy cars in KY, pay tax in Ohio, and register their cars here. Works great for those of us in Cincinnati, but sucks for people in Akron. As an alternative, EM could offer in-plant pick-up, and credit the warranty with an extra thousand miles to cover the drive from Shreveport to NE Ohio.

I'm sure something will be worked out, but that they won't be selling cars directly in Ohio. Which sucks, IMO.

 

[Ekh]

Naw, Look it up OHIO has more democracy than Republicans. We're the state that put obama in office Twice. The dealership problem is a non issue. Elio is a motorcycle. Besides that, it is no problem ordering on - line and traveling to our neighboring state to pick-up if need be. PA can use the money.
There is no reason the listen to mumbling, it's a non-issue. My family is planning to pick - up our vehicles in Shreveport. I'm not working. For a few bucks and gas money, I'll go and pick - up yours too.

You are incorrect. The dealership issue is a real one, if not for you, then for many citizens. Read the law. It is clear. Ohio does not distinguish between motorcycles and automobiles for this purpose. They are all "motor vehicles." Enforcement may not be equal for bikes and cars, but the law applies to them equally. BTW, in case you're wondering, I did in fact spend a morning going through the actual statutes when this first came up.

 

[goofyone]

Naw, Look it up OHIO has more democracy than Republicans. We're the state that put obama in office Twice. The dealership problem is a non issue. Elio is a motorcycle. Besides that, it is no problem ordering on - line and traveling to our neighboring state to pick-up if need be. PA can use the money.
There is no reason the listen to mumbling, it's a non-issue. My family is planning to pick - up our vehicles in Shreveport. I'm not working. For a few bucks and gas money, I'll go and pick - up yours too.

There was a thread on this earlier. Many Ohio residents do buy cars in KY, pay tax in Ohio, and register their cars here. Works great for those of us in Cincinnati, but sucks for people in Akron. As an alternative, EM could offer in-plant pick-up, and credit the warranty with an extra thousand miles to cover the drive from Shreveport to NE Ohio.

I'm sure something will be worked out, but that they won't be selling cars directly in Ohio. Which sucks, IMO.

One thing the state of Ohio can not do is stop EM from selling news cars over the internet and shipping them into Ohio.

The easiest way to get past these issues is for EM to do very well selling these vehicles in other states and over the internet. It is easy for politicians to be anti Tesla as the vast majority of people can not afford that vehicle however it is another thing entirely to block the direct sale of an inexpensive and ultra fuel efficient vehicle especially when anyone can go online and get one anyway.

 

[Ekh]

One thing the state of Ohio can not do is stop EM from selling news cars over the internet and shipping them into Ohio.

I'm not sure you're correct, but it's a really interesting question: can a state legally block sales via internet of an otherwise regulated industry?
I sure as heck hope not. But the state can, and probably will, block delivery to Ohio, arguing that a car delivery point is defacto a dealership. I doubt Elio will be in the business of having a car carrier pull up to your back door and unload your Elio -- the options model doesn't seem to allow for that.

Car to marshaling yard, options applied, car to distribution point near you ... more options applied, you pick up car. That's to avoid the costs of "last mile" delivery. I'm not clear at all how this would work if Ohio cannot have any distribution points. I'm betting I'll have to drive to KY or Shreveport. One's a nuisance, the other a big deal. (I live near Cincinnati, so KY is an easy shot for me).

 

[goofyone]

I'm not sure you're correct, but it's a really interesting question: can a state legally block sales via internet of an otherwise regulated industry?
I sure as heck hope not. But the state can, and probably will, block delivery to Ohio, arguing that a car delivery point is defacto a dealership. I doubt Elio will be in the business of having a car carrier pull up to your back door and unload your Elio -- the options model doesn't seem to allow for that.

Car to marshaling yard, options applied, car to distribution point near you ... more options applied, you pick up car. That's to avoid the costs of "last mile" delivery. I'm not clear at all how this would work if Ohio cannot have any distribution points. I'm betting I'll have to drive to KY or Shreveport. One's a nuisance, the other a big deal. (I live near Cincinnati, so KY is an easy shot for me).

Elio Motors has already said that home delivery will be available, at an extra cost of course. It is really not that expensive to have a vehicle delivered to your door however for the best price it can take some time.

Tesla actually uses this same home delivery delivery method to get around issues in some states. Technically the sale is happening in another state and you are simply having the item delivered. Attempts by the state to block this would be in violation of the interstate commerce clause of the US constitution which is how Tesla gets away with it now.

As a result the only remedy Ohio could take is to not allow Elios' to be registered in the state however that would be a stupid petty move which without any somewhat reasonable reason for doing so would not likely hold up if challenged legally.

 

[JEBar]

Franchise Dealerships .... that seems to be the hangup .... just wondering, why couldn't EM follow that provision in Ohio and "sell" the franchise to Paul Elio who would run it the same way as all of the company's other outlets .... the only difference would be on paper