Elio Motors Names Flame-spray Industries As Supplier Of Cylinder Coating Technology

[goofyone]

Too bad. Sleeves would have been cheaper, quicker, and proven. In a small engine such as this, the weight savings is not even a factor.

Did someone feed you this line of BS or did you just make it up?

PTWA provides a lower cost and lower weight alternative to cast iron liners, while delivering increased displacement in the same size engine package, and a potential for better heat transfer."

From an engineering point of view not only can the engine lose weight by eliminating the iron liners but EM also has the opportunity to cut both weight and cost by making the block smaller, for the same displacement, since they no longer have to include extra space for the iron liners.

Weight may not matter much to the engine itself however it is a huge factor in such a light car. They are trying to get maximum fuel economy so cutting even 60 lbs of weight throughout this small car could mean reducing overall vehicle weight by 5% which really adds up in fuel economy.

By the way 5% of 1200 lbs is 60 lbs which is where those numbers came from.

 

[Hog]

We provide arc spray plasma coatings to the industry. My job is to provide accelerated age testing. It is not an optimal solution. It IS a new technology with alot of promise, but so is cold fusion.
At best, it prolongs the wearability of the base material.

 

[goofyone]

We provide arc spray plasma coatings to the industry. My job is to provide accelerated age testing. It is not an optimal solution. It IS a new technology with alot of promise, but so is cold fusion.
At best, it prolongs the wearability of the base material.

Do you work with the Flame Spray/Ford patented PTWA process or some of the other types of plasma thermal spraying as from my reading there are a number of different versions out there which have different uses and properties. (Just wondering as input is good but it helps to have context)

 

[Kuda]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_transferred_wire_arc_thermal_spraying

"So no re-boring if the cylinder goes bad, you will have to buy a new block and some bits"

Old motor cylinders will be honed out, re sprayed, and honed to speck. JMO[/quote]

I was looking into metal spray technologies in '98 & '99 they've come a long way since then
& continue to improve & evolve...............

 

[goofyone]

I found another interesting PTWA write up with more information. This one is a study by PSA Peugeot Citroen who are studying the use of the technology for their own engines.

http://www.n2m-moveo.com/PDF/TRIBOLOGIE-PSA_Jean-Michel_BORDES.pdf

In this paper they also have a list of companies using PTWA to repair engine blocks:

Land Rover 3.5L / 4.2L V8 diesel engines (AlSi engine blocks with cast in grey cast iron liners),
Monolithic BMW 4.4 l diesel engines (hypereutectic AlSi engine)
Ford Puma 2.4 l, monolithic 4 cylinder cast iron block
CATERPILLAR, 10 PTWA devices in Franklin plant, Indiana (USA)

 

[karl]

One of the nice things about modern engines is the fact they don't need a rebuild after two years. Low weight, existing tech and engineering elegance seem to be the cornerstones of the Elio. I am looking forward to driving what they build.

 

[Hog]

We cannot work with a patented system without being authorized, usually for a particular manufacturer. Each manufacturer utilizes their own system. Smaller ones will allow your own custom mix provided it passes the required testing. Most of the 'big' engines are designed to be torn down and have the coatings reapplied. It is cheaper to do this than bore a monster chunk of iron and rehone it. Also, as a note, base material makes a big difference. Iron coats better than aluminum. Aluminum, especially on smaller, thinner cylinders will distort during the process. Honing will restore the concentricity, but may result in thin spots after cooling.
Not trying to get into a big deal here, only pointing out that tried-and-true systems will require less R&D and have less risk associated with them. In a three cylinder engine, 3 steel sleeves will weigh less than 5 pounds, and dont forget that even though the arc spray material is thin, it still has weight, as it is usually made up of a high density wire.

 

[lafrisbee]

I am not "insisting". I am just pointing out that there is some shortcomings to stretching the logic that since it is used in expensive muscle-ish cars it will be a great choice for a very light practical economy autocycle.

 

[goofyone]

I am not "insisting". I am just pointing out that there is some shortcomings to stretching the logic that since it is used in expensive muscle-ish cars it will be a great choice for a very light practical economy autocycle.

You are asking some valid questions and at this point it does not look like we have the answers. Hopefully IAV and EM have done their homework on this process. I am sure they have access to a lot more information about this process and testing/real world application results than we do.

 

[Craig]

I am not "insisting". I am just pointing out that there is some shortcomings to stretching the logic that since it is used in expensive muscle-ish cars it will be a great choice for a very light practical economy autocycle.

Just email Paul and tell him if EM persists in selling the car with this type of motor you will refuse to take possession and he will look for a different motor. How hard can it be?