Elio Wiping Out Tesla!

[WilliamH]

I personally don't give a rats butt about the fact that government tax incentives favor BIG oil. I do have issues with fairness. My feeling is that renewables/alternative energy options need and deserve the same tax break incentives and consideration so there are future options/alternatives for those that want and/or need them by reducing the demand on BIG foreign oil while creating new jobs and expanding OUR USA's economy...........not the league of Arab Nations.

My only point is that people bitch about tax dollars going to encourage the development of renewables and EV's and don't acknowledge the fact that big oil has gotten it's share of incentives and continues to do so.

Your listed examples of tax incentives are not relevant to BIG oil & renewable energy. Granted, it does take energy to procreate and even more energy to raise children. Many parents stop at drill baby, drill procreation and forget about parenting.

I can't find myself in total disagreement with you. I do however have a problem with wind energy when the generators are made in China or South America and trucked 500 or 600 miles while the environmentalists complain about big trucks. Have you seen one of those rigs with 18 or 20 axles eating up the roads out in West Texas with nothing on it but a couple of turbine blades? . I have a similar problem when the Solar farms use panels made in foreign countries.
And as far as creating jobs in America, that isn't wind or solar. Those jobs are off shore except for the truckers and riggers.

 

[Rickb]

Currently the US only imports 27% of it's oil from other countries; most of it from Canada
Here's the numbers from the US Energy Information Administration http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

And we export a few barrels ourselves because we (the US) make more money that way. For a long time the oil from Alaska was going to Japan because we made money on it then.

It seems from this eia source that 44% of the Crude Oil processed in US refineries was imported.

 

[Coss]

It seems from this eia source that 44% of the Crude Oil processed in US refineries was imported.

View attachment 6620

Yup, now post the rest of it; we import a bunch, process it, and then turn around and export it.
Because right below that large print it says 27% of the petroleum consumed by the US was imported .........
So make sure to include all of the details, not just the ones that favor your side.

 

[NSTG8R]

I personally don't give a rats butt about the fact that government tax incentives favor BIG oil. I do have issues with fairness. My feeling is that renewables/alternative energy options need and deserve the same tax break incentives and consideration so there are future options/alternatives for those that want and/or need them by reducing the demand on BIG foreign oil while creating new jobs and expanding OUR USA's economy...........not the league of Arab Nations.

My only point is that people bitch about tax dollars going to encourage the development of renewables and EV's and don't acknowledge the fact that big oil has gotten it's share of incentives and continues to do so.

Your listed examples of tax incentives are not relevant to BIG oil & renewable energy. Granted, it does take energy to procreate and even more energy to raise children. Many parents stop at drill baby, drill procreation and forget about parenting.

To be honest, I did edit some of the text from the original website (removed Obama references), and is rather dated as it only seems to cover up to 2012, and there's probably 50 more Alt-Energy companies that got tax dollars/gov't grants and then failed that I don't know about, but the statements from this 'right-wing' site are verifiable.:

http://www.dividedstates.com/list-of-failed-obama-green-energy-solar-companies/


Amonix Solar:FAIL! – manufacturing plant in North Las Vegas, subsidized by more than $20 million in federal tax credits and grants has closed its 214,000 square foot facility a year after it opened.

Solar Trust of America:FAIL! – Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012

Bright Source:FAIL! – Bright Source warned the Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Bright Source lost billions of dollars but is getting more money to keep trying.

Solyndra:FAIL! Given $500,000,000 (that’s a HALF BILLION!) in taxpayer money to Solyndra who shut its doors and laid off 1100 workers in August 2011 after billions in losses due to failure to make a solar product that works!

LSP Energy:FAIL! – LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012

Energy Conversion Devices:FAIL! – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy

Abound Solar:FAIL! – Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee then announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy.

SunPower:FAIL! – SunPower stopped producing solar cells in 2011 at near bankruptcy then restructured with the help of, get this, oil giant TOTAL, Inc. who owns 60% stake in SunPower. Irony? The company is still struggling.

Beacon Power:FAIL! – Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy protection in October, 2011 just a year after a $43 million Government loan guarantee. They remain barely in business, still struggling to make energy that makes sense or that works at all.

Ecotality:FAIL! – ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money and remains on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees.

A123 Solar:FAIL! – A123 Solar received $279 million from taxpayers in Energy loan guarantees even after the Solyndra bankruptcy and is getting another $500M after a loss of $400M.

UniSolar:FAIL! – Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20, 2012 after laying off hundreds of workers. UniSolar received even more money after showing now progress, no profits and is still failing.

Azure Dynamics:FAIL! – Azure Dynamics filed for bankruptcy in June , 2012 wasting millions in “Stimulus” money and received abatement on taxes owed and and several tax credits. Azure Dynamics LLC filed for bankruptcy protection in Canada and the US. Azure laid off 120 of its 160 employees in Oak Park; Boston; Vancouver, British Columbia; and the UK.

Evergreen Solar:FAIL! – Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money and filed bankruptcy in late 2011. Evergreen, which closed its taxpayer-supported Devens factory in March, 2011 cut more than 1800 jobs. Evergreen’s $450 million factory, turned out to be a colossal “waste” of taxpayer money.

Ener1:FAIL! Ener1 Inc. received a $118 million U.S. Energy Department grant to make electric-car batteries but filed for bankruptcy protection January 2012 after defaulting on bond debt.



What was your point about aternative energy not getting a fair shake, Rickb?

 

[WilliamH]

Wind turbine blade on truck

Isn't that fun?

 

[Rickb]

Yup, now post the rest of it; we import a bunch, process it, and then turn around and export it.
Because right below that large print it says 27% of the petroleum consumed by the US was imported .........
So make sure to include all of the details, not just the ones that favor your side.

I don't have a side other than treating both sides equally in terms of government subsidies. Certainly not trying to exclude info as the source is there. I don't give a rats butt about how my vehicles are fueled as long as there is plenty of it and its affordable. I'm not debating a side as I feel we need both non-renewable and renewable sources of energy or we have no respect for available technology, the environment, our overall econonmy, our kids and grandkids. Plenty of oil to meet my personal lifelong driving needs so why should I care? By the way, nobody has all the details as we spout quotes from various sources that we think is credible.

Frankly, if we used less USA produced crude for transportation needs, it would leave more USA crude produced for USA refineries to refine to meet our apparent export needs. It makes no sense to have to import oil, refine it, and then export it. If we can increase mpg, provide for alternative renewable energy and alternative vehicle options we should do it.

 

[ks6c]

...I don't have a side other than treating both sides equally in terms of government subsidies.....

Why treat them "equally" when the two primary "renewable" energy sources are failed technologies? Tax incentives for wind/solar are only there to buy votes - either for campaign contributions or to pacify a screaming advocacy group. Please see this post...

 

[Rickb]

Go Tesla! Go DOElio!

 

[Paul DeCrans]

Wind turbine blade on truck

Isn't that fun?

Many of these are made just north of where I live. I can assure you that many wind farms are still being built to this day. Especially here in ND, the windiest state in the nation.

 

[Reid3400]

I can't find myself in total disagreement with you. I do however have a problem with wind energy when the generators are made in China or South America and trucked 500 or 600 miles while the environmentalists complain about big trucks. Have you seen one of those rigs with 18 or 20 axles eating up the roads out in West Texas with nothing on it but a couple of turbine blades? . I have a similar problem when the Solar farms use panels made in foreign countries.
And as far as creating jobs in America, that isn't wind or solar. Those jobs are off shore except for the truckers and riggers.

Nonsense. Google Innergex and actually learn about alternate power. No gov money ever. No tax breaks. US made by GE turbines, blades, concrete, steel, fabrication, engineering. Profitable from day one. @6% dividend today. Parent Co chartered in 1775.