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Ty

Ty

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Rob Croson said:
So, I started thinking the other day about insurance, after being involved in an accident in which the repair bill topped over $5,200. The Elio may be cheaper, but will that really end up with a lower repair cost? You still have to buy the parts. And at least half the cost of a collision repair is labor. So even if the parts cost is half, you still have the labor to replace all those parts. So your repair bill isn't going to be all that much lower anyway. And if the car is cheaper to begin with, it is also cheaper for the insurance company to total it out, and you get a check for a ridiculously low amount, and you're out a vehicle. No insurance company is going to shell out $5k to repair a two year old vehicle that was only $7k when brand new.

Personally, I don't really think the insurance is going to be that much lower than any standard four-wheeler.
Click to expand...
The Elio is pretty simply constructed in some aspects. Suspension components damaged in an accident (those front wheels are just kind of out there) are at least easy to get to. The relative light weight and simplicity of the entire vehicle will make it easier to repair. Having a steel body will help keep it in line with others to repair. If you were to take out the engine as a $1,000 component and interior carpet, headliner, seats, etc. as another $1,000, the rest of the thing would only be worth about $4,200 or so. "Repair" could be getting a rolling frame and putting your seats and carpet in there. I don't think it'll ever cost much to repair an Elio. However, the average cost of a fender bender could be considerably higher. I know my insurance company will call a car totaled well before you get to the price of the vehicle. If that threshold is 75%, a base Elio would only be able to have $5,250 worth of damage before being declared totaled.
 
R

RSchneider

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Remember, the Elio has 4 front fenders and no right door. Someone hits you in the right side and that will entail much more work as opposed to if there was a door there. Then the front suspension has an upright, upper control arm, lower control arm, pull rod, tie rod and inner lower control arm. Most other cars have McPherson strut which is a kingpin, strut, lower control arm and a tie rod. Technically, the front of an Elio is way more complex as opposed to a Fiesta, Mirage or Versa. Even more complex and more parts than a 50K SUV. A marginal rear ender will kink that big right side panel with no door along with all of the other damage. Last time I checked, labor and materials cost the same no matter what the car is. A quart of BASF paint for a BMW is the same as for a Kia. The guy sanding and adding body man in a can works for the same amount if it's a Kia or BMW.

I honestly don't see how an Elio is simpler. I know Paul keeps telling me that but I'm not seeing it unless he is comparing it to a 5 series BMW or a car in that class, certainly not a lower end cheap car you can buy right now.
 
Ty

Ty

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RSchneider said:
Remember, the Elio has 4 front fenders and no right door. Someone hits you in the right side and that will entail much more work as opposed to if there was a door there. Then the front suspension has an upright, upper control arm, lower control arm, pull rod, tie rod and inner lower control arm. Most other cars have McPherson strut which is a kingpin, strut, lower control arm and a tie rod. Technically, the front of an Elio is way more complex as opposed to a Fiesta, Mirage or Versa. Even more complex and more parts than a 50K SUV. A marginal rear ender will kink that big right side panel with no door along with all of the other damage. Last time I checked, labor and materials cost the same no matter what the car is. A quart of BASF paint for a BMW is the same as for a Kia. The guy sanding and adding body man in a can works for the same amount if it's a Kia or BMW.

I honestly don't see how an Elio is simpler. I know Paul keeps telling me that but I'm not seeing it unless he is comparing it to a 5 series BMW or a car in that class, certainly not a lower end cheap car you can buy right now.
Click to expand...

Good point on the price of bodywork. It's true that almost all frontal impacts will take out one or both front fenders and wheel mechanisms. I don't get why you are saying the Elio has 4 front fenders though unless that was a simple typo (I have them all the time). Most of Elio's systems are much more simple than a modern car. I've seen both. I work on cars quite a bit (Well, I did before moving here, that is) and the Elio definitely has lighter-weight/smaller components than a much heavier vehicle. It's suspension looked less complicated than the stuff on my wife's Explorer and definitely lighter.
 
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RSchneider

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Typical McPherson strut front suspension on about 75% of every passenger car in America (excluding the brakes and steering)
  1. Lower Control Arm (LCA)
  2. LCA Balljoint
  3. LCA Bushing 1
  4. LCA Bushing 2
  5. LCA Bolt 1
  6. LCA Bolt 2
  7. LCA Nut 1
  8. LCA Nut 2
  9. LCA Nut 3
  10. Upright
  11. Upright Bolt
  12. Wheel Bearing
  13. Clip
  14. Strut
  15. Spring
  16. Upper Spring Perch
  17. Strut Bushing
  18. Strut Bearing
  19. Nut
  20. Anti Roll Bar (ARB) Link
  21. ARB Nut 1
  22. ARB Nut 2
Elio Front suspension excluding brakes, steering and fender:
  1. Lower Control Arm (LCA)
  2. LCA Balljoint
  3. LCA Bushing 1
  4. LCA Bushing 2
  5. LCA Bolt 1
  6. LCA Bolt 2
  7. LCA Nut 1
  8. LCA Nut 2
  9. LCA Nut 3
  10. Upright
  11. Upright Bolt
  12. Wheel Bearing
  13. Clip
  14. Shock
  15. Spring
  16. Upper Spring Perch
  17. Shock Bushing 1
  18. Shock Bearing 2
  19. Shock Bolt 1
  20. Shock Bolt 2
  21. Shock Nut 1
  22. Shock Nut 2
  23. Anti Roll Bar (ARB) Link
  24. ARB Nut 1
  25. ARB Nut 2
  26. Upper Control Arm (UCA)
  27. Upper Control Arm Ball Joint
  28. UCA bushing 1
  29. UCA Bushing 2
  30. UCA Bushing 3
  31. UCA Bolt 1
  32. UCA Bolt 2
  33. UCA Bolt 3
  34. UCA Nut 1
  35. UCA Nut 2
  36. UCA Nut 3
  37. Pull Rod
  38. Lower Rocker Arm (LRA)
  39. LRA Bushing 1
  40. LRA Bushing 2
  41. LRA Bolt 1
  42. LRA Bolt 2
  43. LRA Nut 1
  44. LRA Nut 2
Elio has double the front suspension parts.

Also, the Elio has:
1. Left Outer Front Fender
2. Left Inner Front Fender
3. Right Inner Front Fender
4. Right Outer Front Fender

That makes 4 front fenders. Plus the two outer need some sort of attachment mechanism (more parts) and each one has a plastic real shell (the black part).

By my count, Elio is more complex due to the amount of parts. It might not have two doors but Elio is making up for it by doubling what a car like a Kia, Nissan or Mitsu has right now.

As for complexity, I can't find anywhere at all where it's less complex over a cheap car that I can already buy in the US (Kia, Nissan, Mitsu, Ford, Honda). If it is, I would like to know how it's simpler.
 
Rob Croson

Rob Croson

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Elio Amazed said:
In PA, A person rides/drives a motorcycle "At their own risk". In other words...
A person hitting you is not responsible for your, or your passenger's, medical or funeral costs.
Or for your lost wages. Or for your, your passenger's or your family's, loss, pain and/or suffering due to injury or death.
You, the MC rider or operator, are responsible for all that.

Someone hitting you (causing an accident) is responsible for the repair/replacement of your bike and equipment.
But not the cost of repairing you or your passenger, or damages to your family in the even they caused your death.

And... You as a motorcycle owner cannot purchase MC insurance that covers your medical and/or funeral.
So... it's basically... If you don't have good medical insurance stay off of motorcycles.
Click to expand...
Ugg. Remind me not to drive my Elio in PA...

I have some relatives that live in PA. I'll have to ask them about this. They do snowmobiles and ATVs. Not sure if they ever had motorcycles.
 
Rob Croson

Rob Croson

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Ty said:
The Elio is pretty simply constructed in some aspects. Suspension components damaged in an accident (those front wheels are just kind of out there) are at least easy to get to. The relative light weight and simplicity of the entire vehicle will make it easier to repair.
Click to expand...
I thought about that, too. But then I thought that just about any real hit on one of the front wheels may just drop the front end onto the ground, causing a lot of damage to the front end. There's a serious amount of weight on each wheel, and nothing to counterbalance it on the opposite corner to keep it from hitting so hard.

Having a steel body will help keep it in line with others to repair. If you were to take out the engine as a $1,000 component and interior carpet, headliner, seats, etc. as another $1,000, the rest of the thing would only be worth about $4,200 or so. "Repair" could be getting a rolling frame and putting your seats and carpet in there. I don't think it'll ever cost much to repair an Elio. However, the average cost of a fender bender could be considerably higher. I know my insurance company will call a car totaled well before you get to the price of the vehicle. If that threshold is 75%, a base Elio would only be able to have $5,250 worth of damage before being declared totaled.
Click to expand...
So the other thought I had about body damage is that the Elio is also very long and narrow. How easy would it be for that frame to get bent? Any decent hit from the side? Bent frames are easily the quickest way to total a car. Both times I've seen a car get totaled by the insurance company, it didn't look too bad, but it was damage near one of the front wheels that ended up bending the frame.

This is all just idle musing on my part, triggered by a recent experience. I don't have any personal knowledge of collision repair. Interestingly enough, if I had been driving an Elio either of the last two times I got rear-ended in traffic, I probably would not even have gotten hit, since both drivers swerved at the last minute and only caught the tail-light area of my car. So I guess there's that.[/QUOTE]
 
CrimsonEclipse

CrimsonEclipse

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RSchneider said:
Typical McPherson strut front suspension on about 75% of every passenger car in America (excluding the brakes and steering)
  1. Lower Control Arm (LCA)
  2. LCA Balljoint
  3. LCA Bushing 1
  4. LCA Bushing 2
  5. LCA Bolt 1
  6. LCA Bolt 2
  7. LCA Nut 1
  8. LCA Nut 2
  9. LCA Nut 3
  10. Upright
  11. Upright Bolt
  12. Wheel Bearing
  13. Clip
  14. Strut
  15. Spring
  16. Upper Spring Perch
  17. Strut Bushing
  18. Strut Bearing
  19. Nut
  20. Anti Roll Bar (ARB) Link
  21. ARB Nut 1
  22. ARB Nut 2
Elio Front suspension excluding brakes, steering and fender:
  1. Lower Control Arm (LCA)
  2. LCA Balljoint
  3. LCA Bushing 1
  4. LCA Bushing 2
  5. LCA Bolt 1
  6. LCA Bolt 2
  7. LCA Nut 1
  8. LCA Nut 2
  9. LCA Nut 3
  10. Upright
  11. Upright Bolt
  12. Wheel Bearing
  13. Clip
  14. Shock
  15. Spring
  16. Upper Spring Perch
  17. Shock Bushing 1
  18. Shock Bearing 2
  19. Shock Bolt 1
  20. Shock Bolt 2
  21. Shock Nut 1
  22. Shock Nut 2
  23. Anti Roll Bar (ARB) Link
  24. ARB Nut 1
  25. ARB Nut 2
  26. Upper Control Arm (UCA)
  27. Upper Control Arm Ball Joint
  28. UCA bushing 1
  29. UCA Bushing 2
  30. UCA Bushing 3
  31. UCA Bolt 1
  32. UCA Bolt 2
  33. UCA Bolt 3
  34. UCA Nut 1
  35. UCA Nut 2
  36. UCA Nut 3
  37. Pull Rod
  38. Lower Rocker Arm (LRA)
  39. LRA Bushing 1
  40. LRA Bushing 2
  41. LRA Bolt 1
  42. LRA Bolt 2
  43. LRA Nut 1
  44. LRA Nut 2
Elio has double the front suspension parts.

Also, the Elio has:
1. Left Outer Front Fender
2. Left Inner Front Fender
3. Right Inner Front Fender
4. Right Outer Front Fender

That makes 4 front fenders. Plus the two outer need some sort of attachment mechanism (more parts) and each one has a plastic real shell (the black part).

By my count, Elio is more complex due to the amount of parts. It might not have two doors but Elio is making up for it by doubling what a car like a Kia, Nissan or Mitsu has right now.

As for complexity, I can't find anywhere at all where it's less complex over a cheap car that I can already buy in the US (Kia, Nissan, Mitsu, Ford, Honda). If it is, I would like to know how it's simpler.
Click to expand...

THAT'S your industry paid argument against Elio?!

You really ARE desperate aren't you?
 
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RSchneider

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Since we are talking about insurance, the IIHS has brought up a good point about bumper height not being the same for cars and trucks. What about autocycles? I also wonder because the Elio is half the width to get double the mileage, but what happens when there are the traditional rear enders out there? For example if just about any SUV rear ends your Elio. I know that for regular sedans, getting hit by an SUV or pickup and cause lots of damage. How would an Elio fare? As we all know, you can be the best driver out there but you can't control what is behind you.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...uld-apply-to-suvs-pickups-vans-and-cars-alike

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...s-produce-more-damage-and-higher-repair-costs
 
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