Is Elio Sandbagging?

[Rickb]

Jerome mention sometime ago that the first of the P5's would be used for tooling the plant.......and the 24 (?) to follow would be used for ride and drive events.......and testing. It's not like we have to wait for all the P5's to be built prior to factory set up and employee training. They can roll out individually as completed.

I've no idea if the engine can just drop in or if the P5 has to be precisely hand tooled to fit the final engine specs. as the final production prototype.

 

[grampi]

What is this AVTM loan I keep seeing mentioned?

 

[CompTrex]

What is this AVTM loan I keep seeing mentioned?

http://www.elioowners.com/threads/atvm-loan.2596/

38 pages for your reading enjoyment!

 

[goofyone]

What is this AVTM loan I keep seeing mentioned?

http://www.elioowners.com/threads/atvm-loan.2596/

38 pages for your reading enjoyment!

Quick Overview:

Department of Energy Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Loan Program which Elio Motors was invited to apply for and did in August of this year. If approved this would provide EM with up to $185 million dollars at an ultra low interest rate which they would then use mostly for preparing the Shreveport plant for Elio production.

Earlier in the year Elio Motors was invited to a green technology event in Washington DC where the Under Secretary of the Department of Energy actually sat in the P4 and was introduced and spoke with Paul Elio for bit and lead to further discussions in which EM was encouraged to apply and eventually did after completing all the prerequisite steps.

 

[ehwatt]

Talked to a couple of the guys with the Elio team Saturday in Charlotte about production startup. As I expected, they both said what we all have heard over and over- 4th quarter '15.
But- I sorta got the impression that they might be holding back and it could start as early as the first of September as originally planned. One of them flat out said he expected to start earlier than currently predicted with as few as 100+ cars a day with a very limited production crew and hours.

Is Elio Sandbagging? OH, I certainly hope so! [no sarcasm]

 

[LockMD]

Is Elio Sandbagging? OH, I certainly hope so! [no sarcasm]

Me too! I WANT to be surprised and them say "okay, everything came together so production will start in 03-15"

But the Wayne in me is thinking there are SO many things that has to come together at the same time, there's no way they will even meet 3rd or 4th quarter 2015. And the me in me will try to keep positive.

 

[imageon]

It would be good to hear the hum and clatter of the plant in September even if at that time they were just making 10 or 12 a day. Possibly still only for advanced testing. Or to tweek the plant assembly processes. We'd then know things were on the way.
MK

 

[BADBOY]

At this point with the engine undergoing full scale development to be followed by full vehicle testing when the engine is tested enough for that I do believe EM has set things in motion to make a serious run of at the very least having some pre-production vehicles coming of the line by the end of the 3rd quarter.

Having said that I also believe that 3rd quarter production is predicated on receiving the ATVM loan in the first half of the year and my guess is that EM is using the production schedule as a carrot to encourage the DOE to approve that loan. Politicians like opportunities to look good, as they generally do a good job looking like idiots, so it would look really good if the DOE approves the loan and less than six months later the first of 10's of thousands of pre-ordered vehicles begins rolling of the assembly line in Shreveport.

If the ATVM loan takes longer than expected or the ATVM loan is denied then timing may shift but hopefully the private funds which EM says they have commitments materialize at this point as a denial of the ATVM loan would not be good news for EM and would be a hurdle they would have to overcome very quickly to keep the negative publicity this would cause them under control.

Couple things you may be able to clarify for me, what exactly is the remaining criteria for EM and time targets for last two stages of the ATVM loan? Also, I thought Paul Elio has said he could continue production pretty much on target without the loan as current investors had committed to more cash if needed.

 

[goofyone]

Couple things you may be able to clarify for me, what exactly is the remaining criteria for EM and time targets for last two stages of the ATVM loan? Also, I thought Paul Elio has said he could continue production pretty much on target without the loan as current investors had committed to more cash if needed.

The way I understand the process is that the stage they are on right now is likely the longest stage as it is the due diligence stage. This really is the key stage in the process as this is where the government reviews everything EM has submitted and whatever else they choose to ask for and decides whether EM both qualifies for a loan and whether they are willing to enter negotiations with EM for the loan. The next step is would be where EM and the government actually negotiate the exact amount and terms of the loan and if that all works out as expected the loan papers are signed and EM gets the money.

There have not been any time targets publicly stated by either the DOE or EM. We don't know if this is because there is none of if it is because nobody can or wants to talk about this.

You can find much more ATVM discussion on this thread: http://www.elioowners.com/threads/atvm-loan.2596/


As for what happens if the loan takes a long time or is denied we just don't know for sure right now. EM has indeed told us they have the commitments necessary to bring this vehicle to market without the loan and at this point we have to take their word on this. Hopefully it won't be needed at all but if it is we hope those who have said they would provide the money actually do.

 

[BADBOY]

The official production start date has only moved once this year in May when Paul said they could not be able to do it in the first half of 2015 so 3rd quarter of 2015 was the goal. As I said above, and was mentioned by Oldfarmer, they are apparently still trying to make it within that time frame so we just have to watch and wait to see if they can indeed get the line up and running by then.



The issue is that most of this stuff happens behind the scenes so it is hard to say exactly what has or has not been accomplished so far.

What we do know is that according to Jerome Vassallo in Charlotte this past weekend they now have an all electric AC unit lined up which also provides the benefit of allowing them to remove the AC compressor from the side of the engine. This is indeed a change versus where things were earlier in the year but is not unexpected as in the town hall we heard there was an issue with the other unit exiting production.

Jerome also told us in Charlotte that the Aisin 5-speed transmission was still their choice and as this is completely off the shelf I don't foresee it being a big deal as the only thing EM needs to do is verify the gear ratios work as indicated by the computer models and refine the AMT programming. There has been some conflicting information on the transmission which I hope we can get cleared up in the next few weeks however this all appears to be well under control for them.

FYI, I owned three Pontiac Solstice (2006, 07 and 08) manual 5 speed. This was a very tight, "short throw" tranny that I loved. I had not owned a manual shift since buying a new 1973 Pontiac Lemans upon discharge from Marines. It was a very long gap between the four gears and the Aisin was a remarkably pleasant surprise. For those going with the manual transmission as I am..enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice