Reference For Helmets Being Unsafe In The Elio?

[Jeff Miller]

I've heard Paul talk about how wearing a helmet in the Elio would be unsafe but after a number of searches I haven't found any studies to substantiate this claim. Is this just gut feel and marketing or is there actually some studies that can support this?

I'm a proponent of helmets on bikes (powered and non-powered) but I also support people's right to choose if they want to wear one or not.

In cars, and the elio, I'm like most people and really don't want to wear a helmet. However, given that your head is the most vulnerable part of your body head injuries in automobile crashes are often serious if not deadly. While searching for studies to support Paul's assertions I found many studies that discuss head injuries in crashes although only a few went so far as suggesting helmet use in cars.

As many motorcyclists are aware, we are inundated by "helpful" people that want to legislate our safety through helmet laws. When you look at the arguments for and against helmet use on motorcycles many of the same arguments can be made when applied to automobiles. So is the reason we don't have helmet laws for cars simply because there are more people that refuse to use them? Is it because people think cars are safer because they are surrounded by metal and other safety devices that will protect them?

Since I can't find definitive studies one way or the other I am left wondering if today's motorists are simply looking at the use of helmets in cars in much the same way motorists fought back against the use of safety belts. Ignorance, inconvenience, rebellion?

Ok, sorry for rambling but please, if anyone can provide a reference to support Paul's claim that wearing a helmet in the elio (aka a car) would actually be more dangerous than not wearing one I'd love to see it.

 

[2.ooohhh]

Well actual physical safety wise you are correct that helmets generally are safer, especially in cars with roll cages. This is why we are forced to wear them when we take cars out on the track. The downside is in major lack of peripheral vision. While I'm on track I rarely need to look behind me(mirrors) and I even rarer still need to look to the side(turn head) because all of the "traffic" is going in the same direction. I can't imagine dealing with the inherent blind spots of a vehicle chassis combined with limited peripheral vision of a helmet while trying to look around enough to safely navigate through city traffic.

 

[2.ooohhh]

BTW, cars are in fact so MUCH safer than they have ever been, that it is dramatically shifting the percentage of organ donations that actually come from motor vehicle accidents.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I've heard Paul talk about how wearing a helmet in the Elio would be unsafe but after a number of searches I haven't found any studies to substantiate this claim. Is this just gut feel and marketing or is there actually some studies that can support this?

I'm a proponent of helmets on bikes (powered and non-powered) but I also support people's right to choose if they want to wear one or not.

In cars, and the elio, I'm like most people and really don't want to wear a helmet. However, given that your head is the most vulnerable part of your body head injuries in automobile crashes are often serious if not deadly. While searching for studies to support Paul's assertions I found many studies that discuss head injuries in crashes although only a few went so far as suggesting helmet use in cars.

As many motorcyclists are aware, we are inundated by "helpful" people that want to legislate our safety through helmet laws. When you look at the arguments for and against helmet use on motorcycles many of the same arguments can be made when applied to automobiles. So is the reason we don't have helmet laws for cars simply because there are more people that refuse to use them? Is it because people think cars are safer because they are surrounded by metal and other safety devices that will protect them?

Since I can't find definitive studies one way or the other I am left wondering if today's motorists are simply looking at the use of helmets in cars in much the same way motorists fought back against the use of safety belts. Ignorance, inconvenience, rebellion?

Ok, sorry for rambling but please, if anyone can provide a reference to support Paul's claim that wearing a helmet in the elio (aka a car) would actually be more dangerous than not wearing one I'd love to see it.

Great question Jeff. Short answer: if the air bags get deployed, I believe they are designed to protect the head, not a head covered with a helmet. If I recall correctly (IIRC), Paul or Jerome stated that you won't want a helmet on your head when the airbags deploy. Makes sense to me. Hoping others here on the forum chime in as well with their thoughts.

 

[Ty]

I think it would be more dangerous to drive daily with the limited peripheral vison of a helmet than without. Further, I'm not sure a helmet would really make much of a difference in a collision with Airbags there to absorb the impact.

 

[GaPawn]

IMHO, helmets do a great job of protecting your head.

The problem is that your neck was not designed to carry and additional 2-3+ pounds on top of it. If your head/helmet were secured, or somehow contained from sharp movement, like auto, motorcycle, and boat racers do, with "horse collars", and roll cages, etc., I would be less afraid of them. But whilst helmets have reduced head injuries, in many cases they do so with a trade off in escalated neck injuries.

Choose your poison!!!

As for the limited vision issues, there is no doubt in my mind that that is definitely a serious problem with helmets. I have previously stated that "the best way to survive an accident, is to avoid it in the first place!!!!" Drive as though your life depends on it, cuz it surely does!!!!

 

[Ty]

IMHO, helmets do a great job of protecting your head.

The problem is that your neck was not designed to carry and additional 2-3+ pounds on top of it. If your head/helmet were secured, or somehow contained from sharp movement, like auto, motorcycle, and boat racers do, with "horse collars", and roll cages, etc., I would be less afraid of them. But whilst helmets have reduced head injuries, in many cases they do so with a trade off in escalated neck injuries.

Choose your poison!!!

As for the limited vision issues, there is no doubt in my mind that that is definitely a serious problem with helmets. I have previously stated that "the best way to survive an accident, is to avoid it in the first place!!!!" Drive as though your life depends on it, cuz it surely does!!!!

I agree that helmets protect your head... I always wear one while riding. I definitely don't want to roll down the road bouncing and scraping my head along the pavement (or face, for that matter - full face helmet for me, thank you very much) But, if you stop your body and your helmet weighted head lurches forward, that can't be good. And, like you said, the best accident is the one you avoid. That is much easier to do when you can see. On my bike, I can see over my shoulder by twisting to the side but I think in a car, that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Well actual physical safety wise you are correct that helmets generally are safer, especially in cars with roll cages. This is why we are forced to wear them when we take cars out on the track. The downside is in major lack of peripheral vision. While I'm on track I rarely need to look behind me(mirrors) and I even rarer still need to look to the side(turn head) because all of the "traffic" is going in the same direction. I can't imagine dealing with the inherent blind spots of a vehicle chassis combined with limited peripheral vision of a helmet while trying to look around enough to safely navigate through city traffic.

The peripheral vision argument is the same as is used by motorcyclists and that doesn't stop people trying to legislate helmets for motorcycles.

In a car I think you could use a half or 3/4 shell and not have any peripheral vision issues. Full face (I always wear one) has a great deal of advantages on a motorcycle when you get ejected and land face first; I'm not sure if this would also be an issue in a car but I suspect that when you are on the track you are required to wear a full face helmet. I wonder why?

 

[Jeff Miller]

BTW, cars are in fact so MUCH safer than they have ever been, that it is dramatically shifting the percentage of organ donations that actually come from motor vehicle accidents.

Agreed. However, check out this guy http://www.drivingwithoutdying.com/ . In addition to rallying for helmets in cars he quotes a newspaper article claiming 7000 teens killed in road accidents. Unfortunately there is no causal link in that statement to anything relevant like head injuries, seat belts, drinking, etc.

Anyway, just food for thought, I have yet to see studies that actually support using helmets in passenger vehicles as a good thing.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Great question Jeff. Short answer: if the air bags get deployed, I believe they are designed to protect the head, not a head covered with a helmet. If I recall correctly (IIRC), Paul or Jerome stated that you won't want a helmet on your head when the airbags deploy. Makes sense to me. Hoping others here on the forum chime in as well with their thoughts.

I love the conversation this thread is generating. Hopefully we all get something to think about even if it isn't necessarily helmet use.

The airbag deployment might be a good reason; I just wish I could find studies to indicate this. As I alluded to in the opening of the thread, we have all witnessed people that are convinced seat belts are dangerous for a number of reasons including not being able to escape the car. I just wonder if the fear of air bags (I know I'm afraid of them) or other fears are generating the conclusion that helmets are unsafe in a car or if there has actually been some study about this to actually confirm they are unsafe. Enquiring minds want to know