Reference For Helmets Being Unsafe In The Elio?

[AriLea]

I've heard Paul talk about how wearing a helmet in the Elio would be unsafe but after a number of searches I haven't found any studies to substantiate this claim. Is this just gut feel and marketing or is there actually some studies that can support this?

This is really all about legal outcomes. And it's a chicken/egg scenario.
The concept of design and test proves out just the outcome tested. Anything else is undefined. Basically the airbag/environment typically are designed to fit the normal geometry expected from the human body. The points of contact and timing can affect what happens to the neck and other body parts. A test can represent what is the outcome of the expected case. I would advise Elio Motors to NOT test this case of helmet use.
Therefore, using a helmet, untested, would enter into a unknown or set of unknowns. Given the case of neck and head/brain injuries, the simple potential damage is high.
Really, all laws favor a known over unknowns. If a legislature doesn't go along, they take on the potential for a legal action. Basically, having real data to support no-helmet, EM wins that fight, eventually. So they don't have to prove out danger from wearing a helmet, they only have to prove safety without it. Unless the State first just banns the car, which isn't the case as yet, and isn't likely.
So lets says someone wears a helmet in a state that requires it. They get hurt and sue Elio. Elio can counter/pass that back to the State with the complaint EM recommended no helmet. Someone getting hurt would likely just go directly at the State, using the Elio data to support their law suit.
Engineering realities would translate the implications of a full car-body from a four wheeler to a three.
It has never been tested in court, that I know of, anyone wearing a helmet(on the street, not while racing), getting hurt then suing the automaker. It's likely implied that wearing a helmet is an unexpected/unauthorized choice by the person hurt, and the automaker can't be held liable for related injury.
Let's say a state banns the Elio because helmets are required but untested. Elio can again relate bodies for 4 wheelers to three and sue as technically unjustified. Eventually EM would win and I don't think any state wants that can of worms.

 

[2.ooohhh]

Legislating helmets and suggesting that they are safer are separate issues. I don't believe helmets should be legislated(for bikes or cars). You can't fix stupid, even with new laws.

 

[LockMD]

Beauty fades ......... Stupid is forever.

 

[RogWild]

I have no doubt that Helmets protect the HEAD, but concerning the NECK

Myth�Helmets cause neck or spinal cord injuries

Fact�Research has proven this untrue. Five studies reviewed by the GAO all reported a higher incidence of severe neck injuries for unhelmeted riders.(45) An Illinois study found that helmets decrease the number of significant spinal injuries.(46)

I still believe that the extra weight of a helmet, cannot be 'helpful' for " the violent whip-like motion of the head upon impact, the injury has rapidly evolved as the sport's (auto racing) No. 1 killer"..... just old Physics 101.

 

[Jeff Miller]

I was thinking about the weight issue and although motorcycle and car helmets are fairly heavy, bicycle helmets are not. So it seems that a newly designed car helmet that is based on a bicycle helmet design should alleviate the peripheral vision and weight issues. Plus, if the helmet is on top of your head instead of covering your face I suspect it would not create more danger from air bag deployment out of the wheel.

Anyway, just more things to think about and hopefully no legislature is reading this and getting ideas to mandate use in cars.

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

I have no doubt that Helmets protect the HEAD, but concerning the NECK
I still believe that the extra weight of a helmet, cannot be 'helpful' for " the violent whip-like motion of the head upon impact, the injury has rapidly evolved as the sport's (auto racing) No. 1 killer"..... just old Physics 101.

Rig that sounds like it speaks specifically to motorcycle use.

Different deal belted into a car.

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

Anyway, just more things to think about and hopefully no legislature is reading this and getting ideas to mandate use in cars.

When they outlaw driving without helmets, only outlaws will drive without helmets.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I was thinking about the weight issue and although motorcycle and car helmets are fairly heavy, bicycle helmets are not. So it seems that a newly designed car helmet that is based on a bicycle helmet design should alleviate the peripheral vision and weight issues. Plus, if the helmet is on top of your head instead of covering your face I suspect it would not create more danger from air bag deployment out of the wheel.

Anyway, just more things to think about and hopefully no legislature is reading this and getting ideas to mandate use in cars.

I hear ya... a newly designed, lightweight car helmet... satisfies the law, allows for full peripheral vision (although I have no peripheral obstruction from my full-face helmet when I ride my motorcycle), would not impede as much the safety aspects intended with the air bags deployed.

 

[2.ooohhh]

OK, read a few scholarly articles over lunch, hate to say it but it doesn't look like kids wearing bike helmets in vehicles will significantly reduce the rate of traumatic brain injury to children in wrecks. It's not that helmets don't protect from injury it's that the physics are different between a motorcycle rider's head hitting a non moving object after dismounting and a typical child's injury in a car accident. The child's traumatic brain injury is due to the brain moving within the skull as the vehicle rapidly decelerates around them.("whiplash") In autopsy it apparently presents quite similar to the brain damage caused by shaken baby syndrome. [sarcasm] Therefore, I propose that to protect the children we should just not let them ride in cars.[/sarcasm]


Recommended reading for those interested in further study.(possibly with more free time on their hands than myself)

• Thurman DJ, Alverson C, Dunn KA, Guerrero J, Sniezek JE. Traumatic brain injury in the United States: a public health perspective. J Head Trauma Rehabil 1999

• Spitzer WO, Skovron ML, Salmi LR, Cassidy JD, Duranceau J, Suissa S, et al. Scientific monograph of the Quebec Task Force on Whiplash-Associated Disorders: redefining “whiplash” and its management.Spine 1995

• Cassidy JD, Carroll LJ, Coˆte´ P, Holm L, Nygren A˚ . Mild traumatic brain injury after traffic collisions: a population-based cohort study. J Rehabil Med 2004

• Shafi S, Gilbert JC, Loghmanee F, Allen JE, Caty MG, Glick PL, et al. Impact of bicycle helmet safety legislation on children admitted to a regional pediatric trauma center. J Pediatr Surg 1998

All of that said, I would like to point out that I concentrated on Cerebral Injuries, Subarachnoid Hemorrhages, Subdural Hematomas, and Concussions. A quality helmet would likely relatively easily help with portion of children suffering from a cranial vault fracture but that is only 20% of the population under 8 Years old admitted to the ED with MVA related head injuries.

 

[Jim H]

I have no doubt that Helmets protect the HEAD, but concerning the NECK
I still believe that the extra weight of a helmet, cannot be 'helpful' for " the violent whip-like motion of the head upon impact, the injury has rapidly evolved as the sport's (auto racing) No. 1 killer"..... just old Physics 101.

That's why the HANS device was created and I agree that if you are going to advocate a helmet for safety in a car then you should include a HANS type device otherwise IMHO you risk increased neck/spine injuries. Driving any type vehicle involves risk and you simply cannot eliminate all risks.