Some Engine Info From The Facebook Page For Elio.

[Music Man]

I had a customer like that once, when I "changed" his bmw's oil for the second time at 50k it came out in piles scraped out with pocket screwdrivers. Ended up costing him several thousand more that he had "saved" on the missed oil changes. . .

WOW! When The Lord was handing out brains, your customer with the BMW, was standing behind the door. And when he heard The Lord say"brains," he thought He said "trains," and said, "No thank you, I don't need any." o_O

 

[Brainmatter]

I'll stay (mostly) out of the oil change interval argument other than to say there are so many variables, and not all of them can be explained.
We had a GM (General Manager) who used to get a new conversion van for a demo every 3 years at the dealership where I worked. He brought it in for oil changes at strict, routine 30- 40,000 mile intervals. No joke. In just over 120,000 miles the history report showed 4 oil changes (he drove the crap out of his demos, fishing trips and what have you). And no, he never had oil changes done elsewhere. Never had an engine problem and did not use synthetics. Under the valve covers it was dark, but very little sludge. Why? I have no clue, but that's not the only case I've seen.

Then you have the other extreme: http://toyotasludge.com/victims

I have personally seen many engines with very low miles on them do this. The ones we saw almost all had routine oil changes done at our dealership at the time so they received the same bulk oil brand as the Fords (Ford/Toyota dealership) which was Motorcraft (not sure who blended it at the time, may have been Ashland..).
Now, I'm not bashing Toyota, so don't go there: Toyota stood behind the vehicles in our dealerships case and fixed the problem. Most never had any problem whatsoever. I'm just using this because I have first hand experience with these and to illustrate extreme cases. I've seen similar things both ways with many different manufacturers.

To sum it up though... why take the risk on something as simple as an oil change? Imagine what those engines that had problems would have looked like if they had 30,000 oil change intervals?
And I hope no one here ever bought a used, late model, high mileage Green E150 Universal Conversion van .

 

[outsydthebox]

I'll stay (mostly) out of the oil change interval argument other than to say there are so many variables, and not all of them can be explained.
We had a GM (General Manager) who used to get a new conversion van for a demo every 3 years at the dealership where I worked. He brought it in for oil changes at strict, routine 30- 40,000 mile intervals. No joke. In just over 120,000 miles the history report showed 4 oil changes (he drove the crap out of his demos, fishing trips and what have you). And no, he never had oil changes done elsewhere. Never had an engine problem and did not use synthetics. Under the valve covers it was dark, but very little sludge. Why? I have no clue, but that's not the only case I've seen.

Then you have the other extreme: http://toyotasludge.com/victims

I have personally seen many engines with very low miles on them do this. The ones we saw almost all had routine oil changes done at our dealership at the time so they received the same bulk oil brand as the Fords (Ford/Toyota dealership) which was Motorcraft (not sure who blended it at the time, may have been Ashland..).
Now, I'm not bashing Toyota, so don't go there: Toyota stood behind the vehicles in our dealerships case and fixed the problem. Most never had any problem whatsoever. I'm just using this because I have first hand experience with these and to illustrate extreme cases. I've seen similar things both ways with many different manufacturers.

To sum it up though... why take the risk on something as simple as an oil change? Imagine what those engines that had problems would have looked like if they had 30,000 oil change intervals?
And I hope no one here ever bought a used, late model, high mileage Green E150 Universal Conversion van .

I had a "peanut butter sludge" issue a few years back, with an Astro van, with vortec 4.3. The old mechanic suggested a "hotter" thermostat. He said, since it had a heavy duty radiator & oil cooler, and was primarily being used for very short commutes, the oil never got hot enough to "boil out" the condensation. I changed the thermostat (hotter) and ended up blocking the oil cooler & the problem improved. My 2 cents

 

[Brainmatter]

"I had a "peanut butter sludge" issue a few years back, with an Astro van, with vortec 4.3. The old mechanic suggested a "hotter" thermostat. He said, since it had a heavy duty radiator & oil cooler, and was primarily being used for very short commutes, the oil never got hot enough to "boil out" the condensation. I changed the thermostat (hotter) and ended up blocking the oil cooler & the problem improved. My 2 cents"

Yes, It can be as simple as that. Or a PCV system fix (many recalls or special service messages for PCV fixes through the years), or many other things.
I don't recall what the official word from Toyota was when we saw the issues (late '90's), but the fix wasn't a hotter thermostat. The Toyota guys replaced a few engines though. No idea what was different about them.
Also, I'd guess that many of the people on that 'sludge issue' site have no issue whatsoever. They are just led to believe Toyotas last forever or they don't need to maintain them. It was an issue with a very small percentage of vehicles from my experience.

 

[Lil4X]

I'll stay (mostly) out of the oil change interval argument other than to say there are so many variables, and not all of them can be explained.
We had a GM (General Manager) who used to get a new conversion van for a demo every 3 years at the dealership where I worked. He brought it in for oil changes at strict, routine 30- 40,000 mile intervals. No joke. In just over 120,000 miles the history report showed 4 oil changes (he drove the crap out of his demos, fishing trips and what have you). And no, he never had oil changes done elsewhere. Never had an engine problem and did not use synthetics. Under the valve covers it was dark, but very little sludge. Why? I have no clue, but that's not the only case I've seen.

Then you have the other extreme: http://toyotasludge.com/victims

I have personally seen many engines with very low miles on them do this. The ones we saw almost all had routine oil changes done at our dealership at the time so they received the same bulk oil brand as the Fords (Ford/Toyota dealership) which was Motorcraft (not sure who blended it at the time, may have been Ashland..).
Now, I'm not bashing Toyota, so don't go there: Toyota stood behind the vehicles in our dealerships case and fixed the problem, I'm just using this because I have first hand experience with these and to illustrate extreme cases. I've seen similar things both ways with many different manufacturers.

To sum it up though... why take the risk on something as simple as an oil change? Imagine what those engines that had problems would have looked like if they had 30,000 oil change intervals?
And I hope no one here ever bought a used, late model, high mileage Green E150 Universal Conversion van .

We always have to take these internet stories with a grain of salt. Writers may have an axe to grind with their dealer, or maybe the story is completely true, but episodic in nature.

Toyota/Lexus had a problem with the '99-'00 3.0L V6. It seems the oil galleries in the head were a bit undersized, leading to coking of conventional oils under some unusual conditions. I had one of these engines in my '00 RX 300, and although I pulled several oil samples, I never saw any signs of coking or sludge - although I didn't stop testing the oil. The problem was supposedly resolved with the '01 MY and the engine got a full review and rework for MY '04 with the introduction of the 3.3L engine.

 

[Brainmatter]

We always have to take these internet stories with a grain of salt. Writers may have an axe to grind with their dealer, or maybe the story is completely true, but episodic in nature.

Toyota/Lexus had s problem with the '99-'00 3.0L V6. It seems the oil galleries in the head were a bit undersized, leading to coking of conventional oils under some unusual conditions. I had one of these engines in my '00 RX 300, and although I pulled several oil samples, I never saw any signs of coking or sludge - although I didn't stop testing the oil. The problem was supposedly resolved with the '01 MY and the engine got a full review and rework for MY '04 with the introduction of the 3.3L engine.

Thanks for that. I always wondered what the actual problem was. Unfortunately by that time I was shoulders deep in "defective" Firestone tires and didn't have time to investigate further. Actually forgot about it until reading this.

 

[BlioKart]

I worked in a Toyota dealership in the service department. I saw 7 engine failures for various reasons mostly due to no maintenance. Best one was 1 year old car @20K no oil changes engine failed. Funny thing is she purchased the service contract.

 

[ecdriver711]

I worked in a Toyota dealership in the service department. I saw 7 engine failures for various reasons mostly due to no maintenance. Best one was 1 year old car @20K no oil changes engine failed. Funny thing is she purchased the service contract.

Key word, my man "she". In my experiences with lack of auto maintenance, that word is usually there. I know, I know, just say'in

 

[zelio]

Key word, my man "she". In my experiences with lack of auto maintenance, that word is usually there. I know, I know, just say'in

Ooooh Nasty! I asked one of my neighbors to help me check something out on my car since I am no longer able to lift the hood by myself. He asked his wife for advice because she used to help her father service cars. She can't help lift the hood because of a very bad back but she has all the knowledge where it counts and she can certainly help people understand what needs to be done. I love having good neighbors almost as much as I love my Elio! LOL :-) Z

 

[Mark Ambrose]

Both my homebuilt airplanes used the Rotax 912 engine. One was 80 hp the second was 100 hp. These engines are high rev, geared flat 4's. I used 100% synthetic for it's superior heat resistance and lower friction. However one problem with 100% synthetics was it's so slick it drops off the engine parts quite readily and could actually increase the chance of rust (not a problem for daily drivers). Regular oil adhered better to the parts and kept them rust free. I would recommend regular oil for the break-in (otherwise it'll take forever) then switch to 100% synthetic for regular use.