Sondors Electric Car

[Rob Croson]

No comments on the "bring your own dashboard"?

 

[Sethodine]

No comments on the "bring your own dashboard"?

Well, it will certainly lower production costs. Many homebuilt aircraft use tablets in place of the typical aviation gauges.

 

[AriLea]

Unfortunately, this kind of vehicle, being sociable seating, probably will never get the volume of sales needed to get the price down to that promised level. It maybe possible, but isn't very likely IMHO. There have been numerous failures of this product design because of that due to the following;

You need to understand, the question for a buyer is one of differentiation. Why would I buy this over comparable products? For the Elio there are no comparable products. For a sociable seating layout there are many. They have to generate interest enough to justify the 10k price, competing with cars like the Smart and the Fiat500 and that Scion (io?). They even compete against cars like the Mini and Slingshot at a higher price on the basis of uniqueness and cool factor. The three wheel layout IS unique, but that is offset by the inevitable questions about three wheel satiability.

So on the one hand it's a believable product comparing against ones that have established production numbers. On the other hand this is only taking a bite out of those sales figures, not developing a truly new market potential like the Elio does.

MPG are not very important right now, yet it still is. But this sociable layout can not exceed by much what you get out of current competition, and so that restricts the perception of any advantage. A sociable layout with simple ICE drive can not likely beat a hybrid PriusC by comparison. To even get on the map it will have to beat the 2001 Insight at 60mpg or better. That design you see doesn't have the aerodynamics to beat the older Insight. 45 to 55 mpg is likely it's best.

If they can't produce at the sale price under $10K, volumes sales go down, the prospects become worse.

Now the Elio once suffered from the fact that there were no comparable products. Because, the market volume needed to get a $7k sales price were unproven. That is, until the possible reach of the 65k (actually 30k was the milestone) reservations came along. That does a 'bigley' lot to off set that unknown. The 84mpg plus the $7k price still mater more that the coolness, newness or uniqueness factors.

 

[Sethodine]

As a tangent off Ari's post, there are further cost-vs-value comparisons that lead me to believe this vehicle will have a hard time succeeding.

First, the price. $10k is likely the price for only the smallest battery option, stated to be 50 miles of range. For $10k, you can get a really nice used EV that already gets more than 50 miles, and has all the advantages that come from a factory-built automobile designed to meet US safety standards.

When you go up to the 100 or 200-mile options, the vehicle no doubt starts to get much more expensive; I expect the 200-mile version to cost at least $20k. If the electric motorcycle rebate continues to exist, then that is $18,500 for a 200-mile range EV. This, actually, starts to make the Sondors more worthwhile, as there are currently no EVs that can hit that range at that price, and likely won't be any until 2020 when used Chevy Bolts start to hit the market. But if the Elio and Arcimoto are any indication, it will be several years until the Sondors goes into production, and in the mean-time those used Bolts and other long-range EVs will start showing up on the marketplace, and you run into a similar situation as before.

 

[Elio Amazed]

As a tangent off Ari's post, there are further cost-vs-value comparisons that lead me to believe this vehicle will have a hard time succeeding.

First, the price. $10k is likely the price for only the smallest battery option, stated to be 50 miles of range. For $10k, you can get a really nice used EV that already gets more than 50 miles, and has all the advantages that come from a factory-built automobile designed to meet US safety standards.

When you go up to the 100 or 200-mile options, the vehicle no doubt starts to get much more expensive; I expect the 200-mile version to cost at least $20k. If the electric motorcycle rebate continues to exist, then that is $18,500 for a 200-mile range EV. This, actually, starts to make the Sondors more worthwhile, as there are currently no EVs that can hit that range at that price, and likely won't be any until 2020 when used Chevy Bolts start to hit the market. But if the Elio and Arcimoto are any indication, it will be several years until the Sondors goes into production, and in the mean-time those used Bolts and other long-range EVs will start showing up on the marketplace, and you run into a similar situation as before.

Hasn't the electric motorcycle tax rebate already expired?

 

[Buzzy]

Just got this from start engine, but I have seen this car before:

https://www.startengine.com/startup/sondors-electric-car

I like the look of it, and I've looked into their eBikes before (http://gosondors.com/) which look wicked.

Is there room for another three wheeled autocycle, albeit an electric one? Who knows, but with a price point a few grand higher than Elio I might be tempted.

Unlike Elio, buying stock gets you a car reservation as well. Interesting.

I like the Sondors. I like the way it's presented. I can't wait to get an Elio, though. After that, maybe I'll get a Sondors. I do a lot of distance driving, so the Elio would serve me better, I think. If I did more commuting that would keep me driving under 100 miles at a time, the Sondors would serve me well, also.

 

[Buzzy]

There can always be a sportier model of Elio down the road, but I agree, this one doesn't look bad. Sportier usually means $$$, so I think Paul is right to go for the "price matters most" market.

For me, it's function. I also think the Elio looks sporty. I can't wait for mine to come off the line.

 

[Buzzy]

Frim, Much to early to call Sonders vaporware. Sonders has a vision in 2016 much like Paul Elio had a Vision in 2007. Crowd funding is pushing a Million dollars and closes in 35 days. A prototype building partner could hand build a prototype for Well under a million. $2-3 Million could in-house build and road test a production prototype model. Similar to Electra Meccanica's Solo and Arcimoto's SRK business model..........funding spent on R&D..........no funds wasted on marketing beyond social media until there is a product to sell. Ordered on-line and shipped to our door. Magic.

The Sonder's Rendering looks so stylish and so affordable for an EV at $10K that if I won the Lotto I would invest in Sonder's. Did you see the Dash render and the side by side seating for old fashioned date night! I want both form and function! That is exactly what Sonder's plans to provide an affordable, stylish, and functional electric three wheeler. Go three wheels!

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I think there is enough room in the market for both the Elio and the Sondors. For my purposes, a lot of long distance, the Elio will serve me better. If I did more short-range commuting, the Sondors would serve me fine. The fact that Elio will cost less will get me into one, but, again, someone who has commutes of less than 25 miles one way would find the Sondors to be quite economical and serviceable. I think the Sondors looks a little cooler, and it would be nice to sit next to my Sweetie, but I usually commute alone, now days.

 

[Buzzy]

Well, I guess we'll see; watch this space... It's possible, I guess.

I'm not impressed with him in the video, he comes across as a bs artist to me...

He made his e-bike work. I expect he can make his car work.

 

[Buzzy]

Yep. When three-wheelers get more mainstream, the regulators will catch on to the number of manufacturers that are taking advantage of a regulatory loophole to bypass all their laws. The more crappy death traps there are on the market, the quicker it will happen, and the harder they will come down on everyone when they do. That's why I'm glad that Elio is still holding to the full testing and safety route. The further you can go to meet as many of the truly safety-related regulations as you can, the better it will be for everyone.

I'm all for the safety, too, but I'd be surprised if Storm Sondors doesn't pay attention to what Elio has done regarding safety. I'm not him, but if I were I'd incorporate some of Paul Elio's ideas into my vehicle.