Start Stop System

['lio]

The start/stop systems are great on a few specific vehicles. The Mazda one works because of the direct injection system. Most require an EXTRA battery, hence cost and weight is increased.The Hbrids work the best but they also have a very LARGE battery for the Hybrid section.

I would vote for a "LEAN BURN" system as used in the G1 Insight.

Most vehicles idle around an AF ratio of 14.7 to 1.
With lean burn you would be running around 17-1 and a max of 22.4-1 ratio.
It is actuated under a low rpm, light load situation and is not constant, It WILL increase your mpg in the neighborhood of 20%.
From what I have seen, idle stop is good for around 10% gain.
Willie

Yes, most studies report about a 10% average fuel economy gain with start/stop technology, but individual driving situations can and will result in much higher savings.

The batteries are actually lighter and AGM batteries are being employed to lower vehicle weight and provide better electrical reliability compared with flooded lead–acid batteries. Even if they were heavier: the savings are calculated after the battery is changed.

The AGM (Advanced Glass Mat) batteries are safer, more efficient and last longer (up to four times longer!) - did I mention lighter? - meaning less battery changes over the lifetime of the vehicle, they also crank out way more amps and have better cycling capabilities. Many systems replace the regular battery with one that is deep-cycle resistant (either EFB or AGM technology), so no: additional batteries aren't needed.

Of course if the implemented SSS doesn't support coasting and you don't have red lights or stop and go traffic on your commute, that will result in less savings. For the average driver it will still mean an average of 10% in fuel (and emissions) saved.

It looks like other technologies (such as direct injection or lean burn) have not been chosen for the Elio, because they are less proven, are more costly to maintain or to manufacture. SSS can actually lower vehicle maintenance costs and is so cheap to build, that it is even being used for many entry level cars in developing nations (several low cost SSS are being built for low mpg engines and relatively cheap compact cars).

In short, no matter what most Americans seem to think, the world is changing to SSS and in time the US car industry will follow behind. Unless we all switch to battery powered cars before that happens (not likely).

 

[WilliamH]

Yes, most studies report about a 10% average fuel economy gain with start/stop technology, but individual driving situations can and will result in much higher savings.

The batteries are actually lighter and AGM batteries are being employed to lower vehicle weight and provide better electrical reliability compared with flooded lead–acid batteries. Even if they were heavier: the savings are calculated after the battery is changed.

The AGM (Advanced Glass Mat) batteries are safer, more efficient and last longer (up to four times longer!) - did I mention lighter? - meaning less battery changes over the lifetime of the vehicle, they also crank out way more amps and have better cycling capabilities. Many systems replace the regular battery with one that is deep-cycle resistant (either EFB or AGM technology), so no: additional batteries aren't needed.

Of course if the implemented SSS doesn't support coasting and you don't have red lights or stop and go traffic on your commute, that will result in less savings. For the average driver it will still mean an average of 10% in fuel (and emissions) saved.

It looks like other technologies (such as direct injection or lean burn) have not been chosen for the Elio, because they are less proven, are more costly to maintain or to manufacture. SSS can actually lower vehicle maintenance costs and is so cheap to build, that it is even being used for many entry level cars in developing nations (several low cost SSS are being built for low mpg engines and relatively cheap compact cars).

In short, no matter what most Americans seem to think, the world is changing to SSS and in time the US car industry will follow behind. Unless we all switch to battery powered cars before that happens (not likely).

Somehow a nice electric overdrive (designed for speeds over 65) would be more effective for me since most of my driving is at speeds 70 and over.
But I guess if you live in metropolitan areas SSS may have value to you.

 

[Hotscoots]

The very place a Start/Stop system would be most beneficial is the same place it would make you pull out your hair .I can't imagine for even a second having my engine turn off in urban traffic . There are infinite times you need to edge up inches to avoid a cab, nudge the homeless or see the elusive parking spot . I will never own a vehicle with S/S . If I'm stuck at a long light or RR crossing , I can always key the car off . Don't need the car doing it for me . 84 MPG is not enough ? Do we need to squeeze every single drop of juice from the fruit ?
Maybe Elio will offer a pirate sail that deploys in high wind .

 

['lio]

The very place a Start/Stop system would be most beneficial is the same place it would make you pull out your hair .I can't imagine for even a second having my engine turn off in urban traffic . There are infinite times you need to edge up inches to avoid a cab, nudge the homeless or see the elusive parking spot . I will never own a vehicle with S/S . If I'm stuck at a long light or RR crossing , I can always key the car off . Don't need the car doing it for me . 84 MPG is not enough ? Do we need to squeeze every single drop of juice from the fruit ?
Maybe Elio will offer a pirate sail that deploys in high wind .

LOL you must just hate the way BMW's handle...

The 84 mpg is for highway driving, in real life city or stop and go driving the numbers will be very much lower.

So yes, ten percent better milage is better! If we want to have US built cars (or three-wheelers) that don't fall behind of the rest of the worlds production, every single drop counts.

 

[Sidecar Bob]

I might like it --- Only if I can switch it off when I want without stopping.

 

[WilliamH]

LOL you must just hate the way BMW's handle...

The 84 mpg is for highway driving, in real life city or stop and go driving the numbers will be very much lower.

So yes, ten percent better milage is better! If we want to have US built cars (or three-wheelers) that don't fall behind of the rest of the worlds production, every single drop counts.

The problem is that you are trying to force everyone to have something and pay for it to subsidize your need when they derive no benefit.
That is the exact reason for the obscene cost of cars.
........"in real life city or stop and go driving"......... Take a cab or the subway. Or move out of the city. Don't ask others to subsidize a life style which makes no sense.
In real life, most of my driving is at over 60 MPH. Usually over 70 MPH.

 

[NSTG8R]

...In real life, most of my driving is at over 60 MPH. Usually over 70 MPH.

Yep. 1/4 mile from my house to I-44, and it's interstate all the way to the Boeing exit. 70mph will get you run down and flipped off. 80mph seems to be the minimum 'acceptable' speed with the nuts on the highway in the morning.

 

[WilliamH]

Yes, most studies report about a 10% average fuel economy gain with start/stop technology, but individual driving situations can and will result in much higher savings.

The batteries are actually lighter and AGM batteries are being employed to lower vehicle weight and provide better electrical reliability compared with flooded lead–acid batteries. Even if they were heavier: the savings are calculated after the battery is changed.

The AGM (Advanced Glass Mat) batteries are safer, more efficient and last longer (up to four times longer!) - did I mention lighter? - meaning less battery changes over the lifetime of the vehicle, they also crank out way more amps and have better cycling capabilities. Many systems replace the regular battery with one that is deep-cycle resistant (either EFB or AGM technology), so no: additional batteries aren't needed.

Of course if the implemented SSS doesn't support coasting and you don't have red lights or stop and go traffic on your commute, that will result in less savings. For the average driver it will still mean an average of 10% in fuel (and emissions) saved.

It looks like other technologies (such as direct injection or lean burn) have not been chosen for the Elio, because they are less proven, are more costly to maintain or to manufacture. SSS can actually lower vehicle maintenance costs and is so cheap to build, that it is even being used for many entry level cars in developing nations (several low cost SSS are being built for low mpg engines and relatively cheap compact cars).

In short, no matter what most Americans seem to think, the world is changing to SSS and in time the US car industry will follow behind. Unless we all switch to battery powered cars before that happens (not likely).

........."most studies report about a 10% average fuel economy gain"...........
Cite specific studies and provide URLs so they can be reviewed.
If you can't cite specific studies and cite specific references don't even mention the studies.
That's why legislation was introduced in Congress to stop the EPA from using "Secret Science".

 

['lio]

........."most studies report about a 10% average fuel economy gain"...........
Cite specific studies and provide URLs so they can be reviewed.
If you can't cite specific studies and cite specific references don't even mention the studies.
That's why legislation was introduced in Congress to stop the EPA from using "Secret Science".

Why don't you research yourself?

Every single study has found that SSS saves an average of at least 5% in fuel and emissions with most putting the minimum savings closer to 10%. The studies come from car manufacturers, independent organisations and European government agencies among others. And that is for average drivers, as stated before, in heavy city traffic the savings are very much higher.

No "secret science" whatever that may mean... Believe in what you want, SSS will be worldwide in most cars within a few years. More stringent fuel economy mandates and emissions laws won't be met without start/stop systems and that is only one reason that manufacturers increasingly built in the systems across their range.

 

[WilliamH]

Why don't you research yourself?

Every single study has found that SSS saves an average of at least 5% in fuel and emissions with most putting the minimum savings closer to 10%. The studies come from car manufacturers, independent organisations and European government agencies among others. And that is for average drivers, as stated before, in heavy city traffic the savings are very much higher.

No "secret science" whatever that may mean... Believe in what you want, SSS will be worldwide in most cars within a few years. More stringent fuel economy mandates and emissions laws won't be met without start/stop systems and that is only one reason that manufacturers increasingly built in the systems across their range.

You're the one who cited the studies.
You provide the information.
Can't provide it? Don't cite it.