The "wait And See Club"

[Rickb]

it could have been reallocated. they may have scaled back the e series to concentrate on getting the 100 pre production vehicles for fleet customers. part of me hopes this is the case, because it's looking more and more like the ATVM loan won't happen, unless they are actually producing vehicles for sale. changing the plans on the e series would be a hit to confidence in their planning, but could be a good thing in the long run, if it helps prove they will have the ability to pay back the loan.

Can't build the 100 pre-production vehicles until after the E-Build and testing that validates the pre-production model. However, the funds could have been reallocated to pay down high interest debt or provide incentives to hire the new head of EM's engineering department.

Also, the ATVM loan isn't going to happen without the E-Builds/testing needed to validate the vehicle.

 

[Rickb]

We have no good data on Elio Motors name recognition, we do know there's about 300k likes on their FB page, that's as close as we know, some probably reservation holders, most just checking it out. They certainly are taking a wait and see approach. That means if one used 300k as the market they have 17% penetration. Which is pretty good penetration.





PS: that's what she said

That was going to be my line! Yet another she said opportunity crushed!

 

[toxotes]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
~hamlet

 

[HonestTex]

Can't build the 100 pre-production vehicles until afterdiligenceild and testing that validates the pre-production model. However, the funds could have been reallocated to pay down high interest debt or provide incentives to hire the new head of EM's engineering department.

Also, the ATVM loan isn't going to happen without the E-Builds/testing needed to validate the vehicle.

DOE told Elio that they have met all of the technical criteria for the loan. Just waiting on due diligence of EM's financials.

 

[Rickb]

DOE told Elio that they have met all of the technical criteria for the loan. Just waiting on due diligence of EM's financials.

I can only ass.u.me the Elio meets the technical requirements for the ATVM loan application process, BUT that criteria needs to be validated by testing the production Elio. EM doesn't even know what the actual performance and engineering data is until after testing the E Builds.

 

[HonestTex]

I can only ass.u.me the Elio meets the technical requirements for the ATVM loan application process, BUT that criteria needs to be validated by testing the production Elio. EM doesn't even know what the actual performance and engineering data is until after testing the E Builds.

You don't have to assume. Its in the 1-U they filed with the SEC on Feb.16

 

[Rickb]

You don't have to assume. Its in the 1-U they filed with the SEC on Feb.16

I know the Elio meets the technical requirements to apply for the ATVM Loan, but I ass.u.me and hope the DoE needs to validate the technical data stated in the ATVM Loan application.

Does it say the technical and performance data has been verified In the SEC filing or are you ass.u.ming it has?

 

[HonestTex]

I know the Elio meets the technical requirements to apply for the ATVM Loan, but I ass.u.me and hope the DoE needs to validate the technical data stated in the ATVM Loan application.

Does it say the technical and performance data has been verified In the SEC filing or are you ass.u.ming it has?

Go read it for yourself.

 

[John Painter]

Go read it for yourself.

Rickb has read about everything Elio related... since forever.

However to the matter of criteria EM must demonstrate in due diligence for DOE;
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2013-title10-vol4/pdf/CFR-2013-title10-vol4-part611-subpartB.pdf
Section 611.101

(6) The applicant’s liquidity as of the
date of the loan application;
(7) Statements from applicant’s lend-
ers that the applicant is current with
all payments due under loans made by
those lenders at the time of the loan
application; and
(8) Financial projections dem-
onstrating the applicant’s solvency
through the period of time that the
loan is outstanding.

(c) A detailed explanation of how the
proposed project qualifies under appli-
cable law to receive a loan or award
under this part, including vehicle sim-
ulations using industry standard model
(need to add name and location of this
open source model) to show projected
fuel economy;

 

[WilliamH]

oh, i know the e series is needed to get to the 100, but it's not clear to me, personally, that it couldn't be done with fewer of them. not sure where they came up with the number they did for the e series. based on Elio history, it was a plan to be absolutely perfect on factory start up, with no snags. many other factories tweak a process on the fly in a startup. the line gets stopped more often, some material has to be thrown out, or rebuilt, and engineers put in some overtime fixing things.... but they get a lot more out the door than if they just keep making nothing, and it can reveal problems straight engineering won't.

if they are making a change, where more of the line will be tweaked on real production, it would explain why they are limiting it to 100 fleet vehicles. if they were doing this with the 50k other orders, the line shutdowns and delays would be highly visible, and raise reliability concerns. with 100 vehicles planned over a quarter.... no one would even know the line had stopped. this could drastically reduce how much needed to go into the e series.

none of us really know what exactly is the trigger point where the ATVM might get approved, but the way things are worded, i think it is the financial requirements that are holding them up. there is nothing in the program about how many test vehicles/prototypes you need, or even what specific testing must be done. there is a requirement about ability to repay the loan. this is what i think they have a hard time proving, until they prove they can actually build, and sell some cars. (it also happens to be the step in the process they are stuck at)

You can do a half assed job at anything and claim that "it's good enough for government work" but Elio actually has a plan on how to use each of the 25.

1) Underhood thermal & HV AC testing – 4 vehicles
2) Electrical – 12 vehicles
3) General inspection – all vehicles
4) Serviceability – 1 vehicle
5) Powertrain (to include altitude testing, emission certification, engine/transmission development & calibration, economy and software development & verification) – 9 vehicles
6) Interior – 4 vehicles
7) Noise, vibration & harness – 4 vehicles
8) Steering – 1 vehicle
9) Ride & handling (to include vehicle turning, objective measurements, NHTSA Fish Hook, tire wear and electronic stability) – 6 vehicles
10) Performance (to include engine/transmission shift validation, 0-60 mph, hill climb, cold temperature start-up and drivability and maximum speed) – 1 vehicle
11) Fuel systems – 1 vehicle
12) Brakes – 4 vehicles
13) Body systems – 12 vehicles
14) Durability – 7 vehicles
15) Safety tests – 8 vehicles

Lets stop second guessing them.
That's a job for trolls.