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Where Did 84 Mpg Come From?

AriLea

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Was thinking about the issue of Conspiracy and Myth. In the case of the super mileage carburetor, what plays into the rumors is the complexity of the science. It's deceptive in that it seems simple, but is actually very complex to apply or even discuss with out technical depth.

The real issue is that people believe what they want to. And can ignore what they choose. That is a problem that becomes systematic when the details are complex.

Anyway, some points to make, and I think somewhat unbreakable truths;
Companies are singularly dogmatic about money and profit.
They also hire and believe in their experts.
Accepted experts in this field have concluded, there is no profit in the idea.
If they knew enough to suppress an invention, they would know enough to sell it themselves.
A 100 or 1000mpg carburetor would make more money than any oil interests automakers might have.
Would corps even investigate or at least query the experts? Yes, always, that's why they have them.
If a corporation doesn't believe there is any profitable benefit, they would not have been worried about it.
A company will not take action on issues they aren't worried about.
Would oil companies be able to hide such an opportunity (as described by the rumors) from automotive experts? No.

Conclusion: The only conspiracy possible is a dogmatic disbelief of the concept.

Has there been, in the past, a dogmatic corporate disbelief in the Elio type vehicle as a viable product for US sales? Yes.
Why? The perception that it wouldn't be profitable or would distract from current products.
What will it take to overcome the Myths and perceptions about this? I think we're getting there.
 

Mark Ambrose

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The 84 mpg may be just like the lottery jackpot, it's always advertised at twice what you really get. OK I'll take 42 mpg and I will be happy. But until I'm driving my 2015 Elio I will dream about 84 mpg.

Personally I wouldn't pay $7,000-$10,000 for a 42 mpg vehicle. The 2014 Prius-C gets 53 mpg city and 49 highway already and rumors are the 2015's will be a 10% improvement over that. True it costs 3-4 times what the Elio will and doesn't have anywhere near the "cool" factor. Nevertheless it would seat 4-5 people with baggage rather than the Elio's 2 and a toothbrush. It's the combination of never before seen mileage and never before seen price and never before seen plan-form that makes the Elio so attractive to me at least.
 

wheaters

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I own and drive a year 2000 Suzuki Swift, which uses the same engine as the Elio prototypes. I can easily get 55 mpg from it on my 95 mile round trip to and from work. It weighs far more than the Elio will and being bigger, has more air to push out of its path.

Talk of "super economy carburettors" is snake oil and mainly meaningless. A gallon of fuel contains only a finite amount of energy. To release that energy, it has to be vapourised then burnt in a finite amount of air, the correct (stoichimetric) chemical ratio being 1 to 14.7. It doesn't really matter how that mixture is achieved, either by any old carburettor or by fuel injection of one sort or another, as long as the correct ratio is achieved and properly mixed and ignited. There are other considerations, such as compression ratio, combustion chamber design and swirl, but they are obviously downstream of the carburettor or fuel injection system.

More important for fuel economy is vehicle mass, frictional losses, rolling resistance, air resistance and what the driver does with his right foot.

The Swift I own has just over 14,000 miles on the clock and cost me just £800, the equivalent of just over $1325, when bought four months ago. I spent about $65 on a full service kit, including engine oil. Despite the Elio giving 84 mpg, it will be hard pushed to give me such cheap motoring. I therefore have to admit that an Elio would be something of a "fun" vehicle....
 
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ArthurKent

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I've seen a fair bit of talk from the Elio camp about how they're tweaking this or that trying their damnedest to get to 84 mpg. Don't get me wrong, gas mileage is a good thing and all that, but do we have any idea what's so magical about 84? I'd rather the car come out tomorrow with 75 mpg than see them experience delay after delay because they're hell bent on some arbitrarily chosen number.
I have no clue as to why you would think the Elio's launch date has anything to do with their quest for 84MPG. It doesn't. And I also have no clue as to why you believe their design is only achieving 75MPG. Pay attention to what they've said and you'll find that they consider the current state of the vehicle good for 81-82 MPG. And there is no possibility that finding that extra couple MPG will take much time - it's entirely dependent upon aero. They also said they have few tricks left - my guess is that it may involve getting the wiper blades out of the airstream or remodelling the rear view mirrors. Perhaps the front end nose could be slightly reshaped. Regardless, it won't take much time to determine whether they can tweak another couple of MPG out of the car.
I'm much less optimisitc of their ability to hit $6800 - Paul mentioned they are $500 over right at this moment. I cannot see them finding $500 of cost
reductions. I consider that impossible.
 

RevTriker

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For me, it's all about the HOV lane. My 1783cc Suzuki gets exactly 40, tank after tank. Elio city is projected to be 49. Sold!
I can agree with that Tex...I think the real test for driving the HOV will be to take my Elio around to all the cop shops so that they can ogle it some and get used to the idea that it is HOV legal since it would be considered more motorcycle than car. It would really suck if I kept getting pulled over and losing commute time when I should be breezing my way to work.
 

ozarkbugg

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Hi Y'all,
A few thoughts. I looked into the Pogue 100 mpg carb years ago, and It appeared bogus. Would be nice if there was such a thing!
A 1955 VW beetle had a 34 HP motor, got 36mpg, and 0-60 in 27.5 seconds.
Anyone know the weight of the Elio?
What fuel mileage are you cycle guys getting on your cycles? What size motors?
I would love to see a diesel motor option, that would raise mpg dramatically. Yes it would cost more!
I hope they can get financing to get this baby off the ground.
I would love a high mileage , affordable buggy.
I enjoy the wisdom y'all share here.!
BUGG
 

zelio

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Hi Y'all,
A few thoughts. I looked into the Pogue 100 mpg carb years ago, and It appeared bogus. Would be nice if there was such a thing!
A 1955 VW beetle had a 34 HP motor, got 36mpg, and 0-60 in 27.5 seconds.
Anyone know the weight of the Elio?
What fuel mileage are you cycle guys getting on your cycles? What size motors?
I would love to see a diesel motor option, that would raise mpg dramatically. Yes it would cost more!
I hope they can get financing to get this baby off the ground.
I would love a high mileage , affordable buggy.
I enjoy the wisdom y'all share here.!
BUGG
1250 pounds. :-) Z
 
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