Why Is A Specific Mpg A Requirement For Atvm Loan?

[Rickb]

Again, I don't see the reason for dragging this process out for so long. Either Elio meets the requirements, or they don't. Shit, or get off the pot....

The reality is that EM is still occupying the pot......................and it's not just the issue of verifying the mpg requirements.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Grampi...
Guy tries to sell me a car that doesn't even have a final version built yet.
He tells me that it's a sure thing that this thing is going to get 75+ mpg highway.
Yeah, the car is light and aerodynamic.

Only catch is, up to now, no version of the car has been taken out and tested for mpg.
Or safety, or emissions... In fact, no production-ready version of the car exists TO test.

Hell, the guy doesn't even know what he's going to charge me for the car yet.

So when you say...

Either Elio meets the requirements, or they don't. Shit, or get off the pot....

Who are we talking here that should do that?
The DOE or Elio Motors?

 

[floydv]

Perhaps it's because that is a requirement of 42 USC 17013 which the trash at the DOE can't change. You can read it in
42 USC 17013 Advanced technology vehicles manufacturing incentive program
(a) Definitions
(5) Ultra efficient vehicle

DOE may administer it, but it is a Congressional program.
Source ---> http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f14/USCODE-2011-title42-chap152-subchapI-sec17013.pdf <---

Note that the there's nothing in the statute about WHEN or HOW LONG the agency has to act on an ATVM loan application. So the agency could decide to take action only when it feels the conditions are right; it's not required to determine that Elio qualifies right now.

 

[Ekh]

Considering it was DOE who invited Elio to apply, I suspect that their delay is to give Elio a chance to really prove they can do it. If they had to make the determination 6 months ago, the outcome would probably less favorable.

As things now stand, Elio has orders for cars in worth in excess of $300 million dollars. They have commenced building engineering test vehicles to demonstrate in real-world as well as IIHS tests that they can deliver the mpg and are safe to boot. They have independently raised over $16,000,000 from people who believe in the project and who hope they can eventually profit from it.

All of those give DOE a pretty solid base for saying "yes," and be able to defend that decision in the face of possible criticism -- and remember, the first obligation of EVERY government employee is to cover his personal (and his department's) butt. (About this I am not joking -- being "blameless" is the lifelong pursuit of Federal bureaucracy, and comes in way ahead of things like actually accomplishing the goals of the organization.)

 

[Sethodine]

Guys-guys-guys, all those things that Elio needs to prove (to us, to the public, and to the DOE) are all going to be met by the 25 engineering vehicles currently under development. Parts are being sourced, machines tooled, etc. And soon, the 25 production-version test vehicles will be built, and be racing around tracks, slamming into concrete walls, and all the other things that need to be done to prove that the Elio can be everything EM says it is.

The P5 is never gonna be seen zooming around a track. It is too valuable an asset to risk losing in an accident. It was--and still is--important to have a real physical car out there, complete with the real IAV 3-cyl. engine, to show off. And marketing is all the P5 will ever do. Just like the P4. The money is in the bank, the Engineering vehicles WILL happen. Just.....be patient.

 

[Ekh]

Perhaps it's because that is a requirement of 42 USC 17013 which the trash at the DOE can't change. You can read it in
42 USC 17013 Advanced technology vehicles manufacturing incentive program
(a) Definitions
(5) Ultra efficient vehicle

DOE may administer it, but it is a Congressional program.
Source ---> http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f14/USCODE-2011-title42-chap152-subchapI-sec17013.pdf <---

This link is very helpful. It really does make it clear where DOE is coming from and explains their requirement that 75 mpg actually be demonstrated. Thank you.

 

[Ekh]

Guys-guys-guys, all those things that Elio needs to prove (to us, to the public, and to the DOE) are all going to be met by the 25 engineering vehicles currently under development. Parts are being sourced, machines tooled, etc. And soon, the 25 production-version test vehicles will be built, and be racing around tracks, slamming into concrete walls, and all the other things that need to be done to prove that the Elio can be everything EM says it is.

The P5 is never gonna be seen zooming around a track. It is too valuable an asset to risk losing in an accident. It was--and still is--important to have a real physical car out there, complete with the real IAV 3-cyl. engine, to show off. And marketing is all the P5 will ever do. Just like the P4. The money is in the bank, the Engineering vehicles WILL happen. Just.....be patient.

Are we there yet, Daddy? Are we there yet?

 

[grampi]

Perhaps it's an issue of timing. If DOE were required to make a determination last year, they may have reached a different conclusion back then, which could be a different conclusion today and likely a different conclusion in several months. Elio's financial viability has been changing over time. In light of several bad loans, perhaps DOE is waiting for an optimal point at which issuing a loan to Elio is much less speculative and more defensible for them.

It may be a case of "be careful what you ask for."

At this point I'd rather have an answer even if the answer is no. This stuff of leaving people hanging for months, or even years is pure BS...

 

[grampi]

Grampi...
Guy tries to sell me a car that doesn't even have a final version built yet.
He tells me that it's a sure thing that this thing is going to get 75+ mpg highway.
Yeah, the car is light and aerodynamic.

Only catch is, up to now, no version of the car has been taken out and tested for mpg.
Or safety, or emissions... In fact, no production-ready version of the car exists TO test.

Hell, the guy doesn't even know what he's going to charge me for the car yet.

So when you say...



Who are we talking here that should do that?
The DOE or Elio Motors?

DOE, and they aren't buying the car, they're only loaning the money so the car can be built...

 

[Johnny Acree]

Just because we don't know. doesn't mean EM doesn't know .