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Us Senator Vitter Introduces Autocycle Safety Act - S.685
- Thread starter John Painter
- Start date
RUCRAYZE
Elio Addict
O K then, and maybe the first difference of opinion that can best be judged by financial risk. i..e. not a wager -they are illegal, lol but my george w against a thin dime that that when the E rolls off the line this will not be the law 0f the land . I'll be glad to hear from you privately (no more than ten trusting our government to come through), I'm on a fixed income!!) Come get me!! lol
well, it's X:XLII, time for tofu w/ pepper sauce! look forward to tomorrow's mail
well, it's X:XLII, time for tofu w/ pepper sauce! look forward to tomorrow's mail
I very much dislike this. I live in California and this sets the stage for California to require emissions testing every two years just like cars. It also means engines cannot be modified in any way. Not even the air filter! That’s right. A different air filter is a modification, illegal in California, and the vehicle can not be registered. You in other states, don’t laugh. This is coming your way. A motorcycle calssification was going to be the freedom from this. Any of you motorcycle riders know that concept of “freedom”.
Since it would no longer be classified as a motorcycle, we would automatically be prohibited from using the HOV lanes. Laws say what vehicles can use it and it does not make mention of autocycles. Automatically we would be excluded. (However, if these vehicles really became numerous, they would eventually be prohibited from the HOV lanes anyway.)
All the advantages of being classified as a motorcycle will be gone because it will no longer be classified as a motorcycle.
If EM makes a lot of money from these from credits and sales, do you really think the major auto manufactures will not make their own? Of course they will. And they have thousands of dealers around the country, anywhere, that are “real service centers” that the buying public has confidence in. They have many experienced engineers, design centers, and manufacturing facilities. EM consists of about 25 people. It would be very, very, easy for the auto companies to can make a copy, and if this happens, EM may just go out of business. Plus they definitely would not have an Elgin dash which of itself is enough to sway many customers.
If this becomes popular, the auto companies could make a copy, add a one foot long axle at the rear, add two tires separated by one foot on it that turn independently, and it is now a four wheel automobile. The auto companies could have the credits and could not care less about any autocycle classification.
A good point about this legislation is that even if EM unfortunately never materializes, the auto companies may still make something like it. They will have real incentive to. I would hate to see it happen because Paul Elio is the one who deserves the credit for creating this great vehicle. There is a real dinger for EM. They could easily be a victim of their own success.
This is good for Elio motors. Is it really good for us? I know it is bad for me and a lot of others. I still love the vehicle but I am starting to have a sinking feeling.
Since it would no longer be classified as a motorcycle, we would automatically be prohibited from using the HOV lanes. Laws say what vehicles can use it and it does not make mention of autocycles. Automatically we would be excluded. (However, if these vehicles really became numerous, they would eventually be prohibited from the HOV lanes anyway.)
All the advantages of being classified as a motorcycle will be gone because it will no longer be classified as a motorcycle.
If EM makes a lot of money from these from credits and sales, do you really think the major auto manufactures will not make their own? Of course they will. And they have thousands of dealers around the country, anywhere, that are “real service centers” that the buying public has confidence in. They have many experienced engineers, design centers, and manufacturing facilities. EM consists of about 25 people. It would be very, very, easy for the auto companies to can make a copy, and if this happens, EM may just go out of business. Plus they definitely would not have an Elgin dash which of itself is enough to sway many customers.
If this becomes popular, the auto companies could make a copy, add a one foot long axle at the rear, add two tires separated by one foot on it that turn independently, and it is now a four wheel automobile. The auto companies could have the credits and could not care less about any autocycle classification.
A good point about this legislation is that even if EM unfortunately never materializes, the auto companies may still make something like it. They will have real incentive to. I would hate to see it happen because Paul Elio is the one who deserves the credit for creating this great vehicle. There is a real dinger for EM. They could easily be a victim of their own success.
This is good for Elio motors. Is it really good for us? I know it is bad for me and a lot of others. I still love the vehicle but I am starting to have a sinking feeling.
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No sinking feelings. Elio's classification as a motorcycle/autocycle is unlikely to change allowing EM to qualify for CAFE credits on a vehicle that is still a long way from production.
The Elgin Dash is more likely to become the industry standard.
RUCRAYZE
Elio Addict
You certainly covered a wide range of concerns-
I heard, but never read, how restrictive the control over vehicles were/are, and my recent real life experience of other regulations.
I volunteer at a school for special kids, and one needed gloves to protect his hands propelling his wheelchair. I remembered bicycle gloves (leather palms, mesh backs, and open fingers- perfect- I bring them in, and someone notices a small tab warning of the "possibility", that they contain materials that "could be" Carcinogenic?? Turns out after I contacted the company, they put the warning on EVERYTHING they make, so they can be sold in California!! Although, this product in reality, poses no "threat" to our health.
It is not in the best interest (read profits)of the United States petroleum and car manufacturers to produce an E "knock-off"
The price would damage the very positive qualities that the E represents. They are figuring out the profitability of EV as a energy credit, and will capture this market too. Why buy outside, when if you crank out enough of your own, you make it on sales and your own credits. As soon as they get an EV with a 200-250 mile range @15-20k they won't need Tesla or EM, and China or India can easily improve their quality to be competitive. (Think Japan and Korea). They won't need "off the shelf" parts, they will manufacture them and the shelves they go on!!
The problem emerging is that EM is trying very hard to be sure that they will NEVER be classified as a car or motorcycle. Currently, they use these options when it meets their needs- not really a motorcycle no need for helmets, not really a car, no need to meet emission standards, it's a very thin line between classifications, and could come back to "bite them".., i.e. your very concerns.
This is all new territory for a personal transportation vehicle in the United States, in other parts of the world a 50cc moped is the "family car"
I hope and have evolved in my thinking to the place it will happen, but EM will be the victim of their own success
I heard, but never read, how restrictive the control over vehicles were/are, and my recent real life experience of other regulations.
I volunteer at a school for special kids, and one needed gloves to protect his hands propelling his wheelchair. I remembered bicycle gloves (leather palms, mesh backs, and open fingers- perfect- I bring them in, and someone notices a small tab warning of the "possibility", that they contain materials that "could be" Carcinogenic?? Turns out after I contacted the company, they put the warning on EVERYTHING they make, so they can be sold in California!! Although, this product in reality, poses no "threat" to our health.
It is not in the best interest (read profits)of the United States petroleum and car manufacturers to produce an E "knock-off"
The price would damage the very positive qualities that the E represents. They are figuring out the profitability of EV as a energy credit, and will capture this market too. Why buy outside, when if you crank out enough of your own, you make it on sales and your own credits. As soon as they get an EV with a 200-250 mile range @15-20k they won't need Tesla or EM, and China or India can easily improve their quality to be competitive. (Think Japan and Korea). They won't need "off the shelf" parts, they will manufacture them and the shelves they go on!!
The problem emerging is that EM is trying very hard to be sure that they will NEVER be classified as a car or motorcycle. Currently, they use these options when it meets their needs- not really a motorcycle no need for helmets, not really a car, no need to meet emission standards, it's a very thin line between classifications, and could come back to "bite them".., i.e. your very concerns.
This is all new territory for a personal transportation vehicle in the United States, in other parts of the world a 50cc moped is the "family car"
I hope and have evolved in my thinking to the place it will happen, but EM will be the victim of their own success
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It is likely wise to wait and see exactly what the language of the bill says before we jump to any conclusions as to what will happen if the bill as written becomes law. The full text is generally available online within 1-2 business days of the bills introduction so we should be able to read it today or tomorrow.
WilliamH
Elio Addict
S.685 - A bill to prescribe safety standards for autocycles and related equipment, and for other purposes.
And this is where we get into trouble....................
......"and for other purposes".......
Wouldn't it be nice if the bill was strictly for the original purpose and they couldn't pee in it to improve the flavor to their liking?
Who knows what other purposes they may stuff in this bill?
That's almost like "the Shadow"......
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man"
And this is where we get into trouble....................
......"and for other purposes".......
Wouldn't it be nice if the bill was strictly for the original purpose and they couldn't pee in it to improve the flavor to their liking?
Who knows what other purposes they may stuff in this bill?
That's almost like "the Shadow"......
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man"
We will have to see what the bill says but the way I read this line it is likely an accurate description not because of anything nefarious but instead to cover items such as CAFE rule changes which is a purpose other than safety standards.
We don't even need a Federal Government bill just a simple change to existing State MC Registration and Licensing Laws for MC endorsement and helmet exemptions.
The evil you mention that lurks in the heart of man is driven by money, profit, and CAFE Credit greed. I hope somebody shoots the bill in it's tracks and puts it out of my misery.
The Elio is either a Motorcycle, Autocycle, or Car. Paul can't have a three way.
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