It’s “snow” Problem

[Made in USA]

How is two wheels in the front and one wheel in the back less stable?

How would it be more impossible to get out of a roll over crash in the Elio? There are something called windows where you can roll down or smash open. Or are you talking about other 3 wheelers that aren't made to be as safe as the Elio?

First let me say that I'm talking about three wheelers like the Elio with two wheels up front. And yes, I was talking about other three wheeler not being as safe.

Elio stability: Think of the outer wheel as a ballast or counterweight. As a vehicle goes into a corner or starts to slide sideways, the vehicles weight is shifted to the direction it is moving in. For instance, turning left puts more force on the right side wheels and suspension. Motorcyclists learn quickly to lean into the corner or they would literally flip over if going fast enough. A three wheeler has the same issues but does have more stability due to the two front wheels. If you looked at the forces on a three wheeler going into a corner, the body is actually trying to twist as the rear section wants to lean easier than the front. On a car with four wheels the whole body is leaning with better stability due to more counterweight better distributed front to back. Many other factors come into play such as center-of-gravity, whether front wheel drive or not, tire size and pressure and many more. A suspension engineer could spend a lifetime in the field and still not know it all. It is complicated. One good feature of the Elio is the front wheel drive. This helps pull the vehicle out of a sliding situation where a rear wheel drive will tend to make the situation worse. Three wheel drive would be somewhat better, but four wheel drive (or all wheel drive) is about the best option. Problem with more driven wheels is that the costs go up proportionately.

 

[RSchneider]

What is actually saving the Elio is the stability control. No matter how you sugarcoat it, three wheelers are unstable. A good example of how stability control saves the three wheeler is that video we all seen of the Slingshot rolling over quite easily. That happened because the stability control was turned off. For anyone that cares, stability control on a FWD car works like this. There's a steering angle sensor and a gyro in the car. When the steering angle is greater than what it should be as compared to what the gyro is indicating for the overall angle of the car in accordance to the road (aka understeer), it applies the inside brake for the front wheel. This will try to increase the angle of the car. When the opposite happens (oversteer), it applies the outside front brake which then reduces the angle of the car to the road. Applying the brake on an individual wheel will send power to the opposite side. This is what they call torque vectoring.

For the Elio, this will save many people and reduce accidents. I know that everyone here are professional racecar drivers with 30 years of fwd experience and don't need a nanny like that but the other 63K reservation holders are not, so it's needed to make sure that the Elio sets the standard for autocycle safety. The real problem that creates rollovers are sudden movements of the steering wheel (akak panic maneuver). No matter how much we try to avoid doing it, there are other cars and various obstacles out there (i.e. deer) and you can't avoid that.

 

[Frim]

What is actually saving the Elio is the stability control. No matter how you sugarcoat it, three wheelers are unstable. A good example of how stability control saves the three wheeler is that video we all seen of the Slingshot rolling over quite easily. That happened because the stability control was turned off. For anyone that cares, stability control on a FWD car works like this. There's a steering angle sensor and a gyro in the car. When the steering angle is greater than what it should be as compared to what the gyro is indicating for the overall angle of the car in accordance to the road (aka understeer), it applies the inside brake for the front wheel. This will try to increase the angle of the car. When the opposite happens (oversteer), it applies the outside front brake which then reduces the angle of the car to the road. Applying the brake on an individual wheel will send power to the opposite side. This is what they call torque vectoring.

For the Elio, this will save many people and reduce accidents. I know that everyone here are professional racecar drivers with 30 years of fwd experience and don't need a nanny like that but the other 63K reservation holders are not, so it's needed to make sure that the Elio sets the standard for autocycle safety. The real problem that creates rollovers are sudden movements of the steering wheel (akak panic maneuver). No matter how much we try to avoid doing it, there are other cars and various obstacles out there (i.e. deer) and you can't avoid that.

I knew that but I was waiting for a more articulate explanation so others could understand it.

 

[DAVID BROWER]

HAVING DRIVEN MY FREEWAYS & MESSERSCHMITTS IN ALL SORTS OF CONDITIONS
I CAN SAY THAT THE REAR WHEEL DOES NOT LIKE THE HUMP OF SNOW IN THE CENTER OF THE LANE .

IT WANTS TO FIND IT'S WAY ONTO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER WHICH IN TURN TRIES TO STEER THE CAR
IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION . IT DOES THE SAME THING WITH THE RUTS ON A DIRT ROAD .

IT TAKES A BIT OF SKILL TO KEEP THE TADPOLE TRIKE GOING STRAIGHT IN THOSE CONDITIONS .
THE ELIO WILL BE NO DIFFERENT .

THIS IS NOT A DEAL BREAKER FOR ME BY ANY MEANS . I DON'T PLAN TO DRIVE MY ELIO ON DIRT ROADS
AND IF I HAVE TO MAKE IT HOME IN THE SNOW , IT IS MANAGEABLE IF YOU DRIVE SLOW & CAREFULLLY .

 

[Rickb]

The Elio is an and vehicle......a supplement to the family car. If there is a hump of snow in the center of the lane drive the 4X4 and garage the Elio. Simple solution for most unless the Elio is your only mode of transportation.........or mass transit for a day until the roads are plowed.

Easy to talk about how safe your vehicle is going to be, but Elio needs to lock in specs and complete the build and testing of the 25 Vehicles to validate the safety talk. The moose test will validate a vehicles stability. A well designed and engineered narrow three wheeler could be more stabile and safer than a SUV.

 

[Elio Amazed]

A well designed and engineered narrow three wheeler could be more stabile and safer than a SUV.

https://www.elioowners.com/threads/efficient-urban-light-vehicle.8660/



Tilting two seater doing 81mph with a 186 mile range.
It might even make Patrick happy but then again...

 

[Rickb]

https://www.elioowners.com/threads/efficient-urban-light-vehicle.8660/



Tilting two seater doing 81mph with a 186 mile range.
It might even make Patrick happy but then again...

That's exactly what Patrick is talking about in a three wheeler tilter! Thanks for posting!

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

What is actually saving the Elio is the stability control. No matter how you sugarcoat it, three wheelers are unstable. A good example of how stability control saves the three wheeler is that video we all seen of the Slingshot rolling over quite easily. That happened because the stability control was turned off. For anyone that cares, stability control on a FWD car works like this. There's a steering angle sensor and a gyro in the car. When the steering angle is greater than what it should be as compared to what the gyro is indicating for the overall angle of the car in accordance to the road (aka understeer), it applies the inside brake for the front wheel. This will try to increase the angle of the car. When the opposite happens (oversteer), it applies the outside front brake which then reduces the angle of the car to the road. Applying the brake on an individual wheel will send power to the opposite side. This is what they call torque vectoring.

For the Elio, this will save many people and reduce accidents. I know that everyone here are professional racecar drivers with 30 years of fwd experience and don't need a nanny like that but the other 63K reservation holders are not, so it's needed to make sure that the Elio sets the standard for autocycle safety. The real problem that creates rollovers are sudden movements of the steering wheel (akak panic maneuver). No matter how much we try to avoid doing it, there are other cars and various obstacles out there (i.e. deer) and you can't avoid that.

Um, no. that's NOT how it works.

Tadpole style (2 wheels in the front and 1 in the back) 3 wheel vehicles are inherently stable. Even more so with the front engine and front drive AND tandem (front and back) seating.
The only way you'd flip an Elio is drive backwards over 25 mph and cut the wheel attempting a "Knight Rider" spinning directional change type maneuver.

And comparing a Polaris with an Elio is just ignorant.
The Polaris in a high performance front engine but rear wheel drive vehicle and a side by side cockpit which COMPLETELY changes the driving characteristics compared to a economy designed front engine, front drive, tandem seated vehicle.

the video with the Polaris rolling over shows you an over steer event with a rolling to the driver (only occupant) side. I'd be willing to bet that if the turn occurred in the opposite direction, a roll would have not happened.

An Elio would likely drive like an economy car like a Honda Fit or Toyota Echo. a slight Understeer would likely occur during a Panic Swerve and the moment of a passenger being 3 feet outside the center of gravity like the Polaris would not be a factor.

The Elio stability package will likely attempt to keep the same handling characteristics with driving alone and driving with a passenger.

So stop with the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) speech on the Elio driving stability.

If you want to spread FUD, stick with the financial uncertainty.

 

[RSchneider]

How does stability control work? You know that the Elio will have it (it's a Teves unit and most likely a MK10 system). Plus, the video of the Polaris was with the stability control turned off, thus you can see what happened. Since you are a vehicle dynamicist, then please explain it in a more technical way because I think everyone here would like to be educated instead of using general terms if Knight Rider and likely driving like a Fit or Echo.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

How does stability control work? You know that the Elio will have it (it's a Teves unit and most likely a MK10 system). Plus, the video of the Polaris was with the stability control turned off, thus you can see what happened. Since you are a vehicle dynamicist, then please explain it in a more technical way because I think everyone here would like to be educated instead of using general terms if Knight Rider and likely driving like a Fit or Echo.

"Give me a place to stand and I can move the world" Archimedes of Syracuse (c. 287 BC to c. 212 BC)

It's a simple lever. The center of gravity is the fulcrum. The farther a force (in this instance, weight) is from the fulcrum, the more force on the entire vehicle it will have. A person sitting AT the center of gravity or AT the axis, will not impart a considerable force. A person sitting 3 feet outside (in this case to the right) of the center will impart a considerable force. Also, the polaris passenger(s) sit well behind the center of gravity increasing the distance and thus, increasing the force and increasing the chances of a roll over.

Should I bring crayons next time?