My Elio Alternate Project Is Underway.

[Ace]

or ...

Do you see someone daily actually developing a real car?

Watching you development process is my favorite part. I am tempering my expectations but enjoying watching your progress. I get frustrated with the crazy crap people say in the Facebook group so I prefer to see it over here.

 

[Mark BEX]

So just to keep you informed of the process when you see there's a shortage of build pictures, the front track width.

Currently the front end has a track of 1420mm/56". For those who don't know what track is, it's the width distance between the centers of the tires. In general you will notice that commuter cars are narrow, and sports cars are wide, this is because the width of the track is a strong determiner of stability, along with other factors.

Of course the width to the outside of the tires is your real track width, in terms of what determines stability, but there is so many different tire sizes, the standard is to measure to the centers of the tires only.

For a 3 wheeler, of course, we want a wide front track, as it is a major determiner of stability, as the rear track is so small, eg; the width of the rear tire only.

For practical purposes, I would like a track width in the area of 1550mm/61" to 1600mm/63", I feel is a good all round compromise. The Elio I felt was a little too wide at 1700mm/67", starts to lose the advantages of parking, storage and nimbleness in city driving. The Vanderhall is 1500mm/59" for reference, but it has wide front tires for increased 'realworld track' width.

So, how do I go from 1420mm/56" to a wider track? this is what I have been doing these days, here's the thinking:

A/ Build a simple, laser cut and folded sheet metal cross-member. Using the stock lower control arms. If have accident, cross-member can be easily duplicated at low cost in any small engineering shop. Mind you, it's a pretty serious accident if the cross-member has to be replaced, and more likely the car is going to be scrapped.

B/ Keep stock cross-member, but make custom control arms. This is easier, but even in minor accidents, the control arms are often nearly always damaged, meaning the difficulty of having to recreate many arms in the future.

C/ Get custom wheels with larger offset, and build in the kingpin inclination (or SAI) to retrieve the negative scrub radius. This is a good option as wheels are rarely replaced, and it gives the wheel a sexy deep dish look.

Then the CV shafts are too short if I go with A/ or B/ ... so;

AA/ Order custom wider CV shafts. problem, CV shafts are a high wear item on FWD cars, if I have custom CVs, and later someone wants to replace them, it could be an issue.

BB/ Modify the inner CV joints using 2 joined together. They are a low wear item compared to the outer joints, in fact you may never replace them in the car's life, and if you needed to, just buy 2 of them and have a small engineering shop do the simple task of joining them together. This allows me to use 'off the shelf' CV shafts, as well as easy for future servicing.

I am not asking for opinions, I am just letting you know where the days go to. I have been finding and talking to various suppliers, as well as measuring and designing the various options in CAD to see how they fit together with current design parameters..

 

[DikiJ]

So just to keep you informed of the process when you see there's a shortage of build pictures, the front track width.

Currently the front end has a track of 1420mm/56". For those who don't know what track is, it's the width distance between the centers of the tires. In general you will notice that commuter cars are narrow, and sports cars are wide, this is because the width of the track is a strong determiner of stability, along with other factors.

Of course the width to the outside of the tires is your real track width, in terms of what determines stability, but there is so many different tire sizes, the standard is to measure to the centers of the tires only.

For a 3 wheeler, of course, we want a wide front track, as it is a major determiner of stability, as the rear track is so small, eg; the width of the rear tire only.

For practical purposes, I would like a track width in the area of 1550mm/61" to 1600mm/63", I feel is a good all round compromise. The Elio I felt was a little too wide at 1700mm/67", starts to lose the advantages of parking, storage and nimbleness in city driving. The Vanderhall is 1500mm/59" for reference, but it has wide front tires for increased 'realworld track' width.

So, how do I go from 1420mm/56" to a wider track? this is what I have been doing these days, here's the thinking:

A/ Build a simple, laser cut and folded sheet metal cross-member. Using the stock lower control arms. If have accident, cross-member can be easily duplicated at low cost in any small engineering shop. Mind you, it's a pretty serious accident if the cross-member has to be replaced, and more likely the car is going to be scrapped.

B/ Keep stock cross-member, but make custom control arms. This is easier, but even in minor accidents, the control arms are often nearly always damaged, meaning the difficulty of having to recreate many arms in the future.

C/ Get custom wheels with larger offset, and build in the kingpin inclination (or SAI) to retrieve the negative scrub radius. This is a good option as wheels are rarely replaced, and it gives the wheel a sexy deep dish look.

Then the CV shafts are too short if I go with A/ or B/ ... so;

AA/ Order custom wider CV shafts. problem, CV shafts are a high wear item on FWD cars, if I have custom CVs, and later someone wants to replace them, it could be an issue.

BB/ Modify the inner CV joints using 2 joined together. They are a low wear item compared to the outer joints, in fact you may never replace them in the car's life, and if you needed to, just buy 2 of them and have a small engineering shop do the simple task of joining them together. This allows me to use 'off the shelf' CV shafts, as well as easy for future servicing.

I am not asking for opinions, I am just letting you know where the days go to. I have been finding and talking to various suppliers, as well as measuring and designing the various options in CAD to see how they fit together with current design parameters..

Why do most autos use the 4 ft 8 1/2 inch trackwidth? (Just a little extra info.)
The answer given is that English ex-patriots built U.S. railroads and carriages and wagons, and 4 feet 8-1/2 inches was the standard railroad track gauge in England because the railroad tracks were built on top of road ruts created by the Romans to accommodate their war chariots.

 

[Mark BEX]

Why do most autos use the 4 ft 8 1/2 inch trackwidth? (Just a little extra info.)
The answer given is that English ex-patriots built U.S. railroads and carriages and wagons, and 4 feet 8-1/2 inches was the standard railroad track gauge in England because the railroad tracks were built on top of road ruts created by the Romans to accommodate their war chariots.

I like these little snippets of history :-)

BUT ... I am not supplying a narrow track version of the BEX just so some of you can go driving down rail tracks ....

 

[3wheelin]

So just to keep you informed of the process when you see there's a shortage of build pictures, the front track width.

Currently the front end has a track of 1420mm/56". For those who don't know what track is, it's the width distance between the centers of the tires. In general you will notice that commuter cars are narrow, and sports cars are wide, this is because the width of the track is a strong determiner of stability, along with other factors.

Of course the width to the outside of the tires is your real track width, in terms of what determines stability, but there is so many different tire sizes, the standa

For a 3 wheeler, of course, we want a wide front track, as it is a major determiner of stability, as the rear track is so small, eg; the width of the rear tire only.

For practical purposes, I would like a track width in the area of 1550mm/61" to 1600mm/63", I feel is a good all round compromise. The Elio I felt was a little too wide at 1700mm/67", starts to lose the advantages of parking, storage and nimbleness in city driving. The Vanderhall is 1500mm/59" for reference, but it has wide front tires for increased 'realworld track' width.

So, how do I go from 1420mm/56" to a wider track? this is what I have been doing these days, here's the thinking:

A/ Build a simple, laser cut and folded sheet metal cross-member. Using the stock lower control arms. If have accident, cross-member can be easily duplicated at low cost in any small engineering shop. Mind you, it's a pretty serious accident if the cross-member has to be replaced, and more likely the car is going to be scrapped.

B/ Keep stock cross-member, but make custom control arms. This is easier, but even in minor accidents, the control arms are often nearly always damaged, meaning the difficulty of having to recreate many arms in the future.

C/ Get custom wheels with larger offset, and build in the kingpin inclination (or SAI) to retrieve the negative scrub radius. This is a good option as wheels are rarely replaced, and it gives the wheel a sexy deep dish look.

Then the CV shafts are too short if I go with A/ or B/ ... so;

AA/ Order custom wider CV shafts. problem, CV shafts are a high wear item on FWD cars, if I have custom CVs, and later someone wants to replace them, it could be an issue.

BB/ Modify the inner CV joints using 2 joined together. They are a low wear item compared to the outer joints, in fact you may never replace them in the car's life, and if you needed to, just buy 2 of them and have a small engineering shop do the simple task of joining them together. This allows me to use 'off the shelf' CV shafts, as well as easy for future servicing.

I am not asking for opinions, I am just letting you know where the days go to. I have been finding and talking to various suppliers, as well as measuring and designing the various options in CAD to see how they fit together with current design parameters..

Can't wait for that all important first test drive!

 

[Rickb]

Can't wait for that all important first test drive!

I can’t wait for your SOLO test drive review!

 

[3wheelin]

I can’t wait for your SOLO test drive review!

That's the easy part but I've made it clear to them that I have no intention of participating on a SOLO test drive until they confirm a delivery date. EMV just announced that Mesa, Arizona was their new plant site which will be operational in 2022! Not sure at this point if there's any assembled SOLOs from their China plant for deliveries this year.

 

[Made in USA]

While I like the work being done, I can't help but wonder if the whole process is going to be obsolete soon. Consider a 3-D printed vehicle made out of carbon fiber and the carbon fiber is the battery for the electric motors. While only about 20% of the capacity of lithium-cobalt, it would greatly reduce the vehicle weight and with less energy density should be safer too. Read about it here:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210322091632.htm

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread but maybe we can have our cake and eat it too?

 

[JEBar]

thanks for the info and if that's what some folks want, I hope it becomes a reality and they get one .... for me, NO interest whatsoever .... the reason is simple, for around $10,000 no electric vehicle can offer anywhere near the level of performance that is possible in a gasoline powered BEX type reverse trike .... specifically, the ability to crank it up and drive ocean to ocean, or border to border without delays related to keeping batteries charged .... in addition it can heat, AC and a host of other electrical amenities without drastically reducing cruising range .... while its nice to dream and the day may eventually arrive, no electric vehicle in its price range can come close

 

[3wheelin]

thanks for the info and if that's what some folks want, I hope it becomes a reality and they get one .... for me, NO interest whatsoever .... the reason is simple, for around $10,000 no electric vehicle can offer anywhere near the level of performance that is possible in a gasoline powered BEX type reverse trike .... specifically, the ability to crank it up and drive ocean to ocean, or border to border without delays related to keeping batteries charged .... in addition it can heat, AC and a host of other electrical amenities without drastically reducing cruising range .... while its nice to dream and the day may eventually arrive, no electric vehicle in its price range can come close

Indeed sir! While I lost all hopes in the ELIO, BEX renewed my interest in affordable ICE 3wheeler and I'll gladly buy it in kit form for easy international shipping.