I really appreciate you participating in the forum, even if it's on the doubting side. Anyway, I'll enjoy this next debate. Your angle of view shadows the impinging challenges. I do notice something about direct industry experience vs other perspectives. I'm an 'other'. I have no direct industry experience in actual automotive manufacturing, I only have hands on research into concepts and prototypes....and market research. So my perspective is one of, what is physically possible. But in this case, the focus is 'what is sociably-economically-commercially possible'. Given the track-record of other start-ups you can never feel 100% sure until these things are off the ground. Especially automotive start-ups. I will point out, you can never !exclusively! use 'normal' inside industry experience to judge 'unique and exceptional' new vehicles. If you did, one would never try anything new. By it's nature a totally new car product is absolutely 'unique and exceptional'. And getting there is always an arduous and surprising path. i.e, never normal. I think it's a case here more about convincing others, those who have the money, that the benefits far outweigh the risks. It's not at all about how much money was wasted, and never has been. Simply, given the amount needed, can you acquire that? Can you sell the idea? Anyway, given your input as a representative of an industry, a member of the elite insider, I'd say the money will not come from that sector. (we always knew that was the fact) In the business side of the industry, they have interest conflicts that would want to work against an inexpensive product line. The money will have to come from 'other'. As far as selling it, Paul has soundly won the customer attentions. And he has sold the idea to everyone else, save one segment. But, that segment, has he sold it to those who can finance it? I don't know, obviously not yet. We would have to know who that is, once we find 'them'. And once we do, what will their 'normal' experiences be? The Elio car will benefit everyone in the US except for the major manufacturers, as well as the economy at large.. For the 'majors' it's a low level challenge. So they are not worried, but also not interested. The money with have to come from those who benefit. So I think that the challenge is showing those benefits. And THAT is what we should investigate and discuss, what are the benefits, and to whom? We already know how it will affect the buyers, but who else, and how else? I have a list. I'll bet with industry experience, if you tried, you could expand that list greatly.