Us Senator Vitter Introduces Autocycle Safety Act - S.685

[WilliamH]

I didn't say it was a "grant," I said it was a subsidy. The purpose of the IDA is "Industrial Development." By using municipal bond financing, that subsidizes the manufacturer because its real estate costs are lower. If a private entity bought the plant and leased it to Elio, its costs of financing would have been higher. Plus, if the Plant is owned by the IDA, it does not pay real estate taxes, since it is a government agency. That also lowers carrying costs substantially. Usually, the leasee pays fee in lieu of taxes that is substantially lower than the real estate taxes would be. Through this method, the IDA lowers the operating costs of the manufacturer in exchange for the jobs the manufacturer agrees to create.

Caddo acquired it through bankruptcy (Racer Trust). They were getting no tax dollars. This way it isn't an expense and the revenue coming in helps to offset the the lost tax revenue which would have been totally lost plus rip down expenses if they hadn't bought it. You need to stop listening to the "If you have it I don't so it cost me money" theory people.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

I leave you guys alone for a few hours and now look.......

 

[Chris F]

Caddo acquired it through bankruptcy (Racer Trust). They were getting no tax dollars. This way it isn't an expense and the revenue coming in helps to offset the the lost tax revenue which would have been totally lost plus rip down expenses if they hadn't bought it. You need to stop listening to the "If you have it I don't so it cost me money" theory people.

You are not looking at it from Elio's point of view. By a state agency owning the Plant, it lowers Elio's operating costs. The fact that it benefits the locality is part of the deal, obviously. This structure, which is used all over the US, is a win-win for both sides. For the locality, it creates jobs and puts unused assets back to work. The county gets some revenue by the fee in lieu of taxes, but more importantly, it gets people employed at the Plant and those people spend money in the parish, which gets more people employed. For Elio, its lease payments are less (since the lease payments would have to include the higher costs of financing as well as higher taxes). However, that makes it a subsidy, just like governments have been doing since the beginning of the US.

 

[WilliamH]

You are not looking at it from Elio's point of view. By a state agency owning the Plant, it lowers Elio's operating costs. The fact that it benefits the locality is part of the deal, obviously. This structure, which is used all over the US, is a win-win for both sides. For the locality, it creates jobs and puts unused assets back to work. The county gets some revenue by the fee in lieu of taxes, but more importantly, it gets people employed at the Plant and those people spend money in the parish, which gets more people employed. For Elio, its lease payments are less (since the lease payments would have to include the higher costs of financing as well as higher taxes). However, that makes it a subsidy, just like governments have been doing since the beginning of the US.

A subsidy is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector (or institution, business, or individual) generally with the aim of promoting economic and social policy.
I just don't see it as a subsidy.
By your definition, my mortgage tax deduction is a subsidy.
I don't buy that either.

 

[Chris F]

A subsidy is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector (or institution, business, or individual) generally with the aim of promoting economic and social policy.
I just don't see it as a subsidy.
By your definition, my mortgage tax deduction is a subsidy.
I don't buy that either.

If you ask your Congressman, a mortgage loan company or a realtor, they will tell you that the mortgage interest deduction is considered a subsidy because it lowers the cost of home ownership. When it was proposed that that deduction be removed a few years ago, there was a uproar for that very reason.

 

[WilliamH]

Chris F,
If you look up the exact wording of the DoE ATVM terms and conditions you may see why I don't think it should be called a subsidy.

And reducing the amount you extort from me to support dead beats, politicians, and other undesirables so I won't be as angry is not subsidizing my life style. It's just not stealing as much from me.

 

[Chris F]

But, none of this is relevant to my point, which is that government on all levels have sought to assist new transportation technologies when they began. The first regularly scheduled airline flight in the US carried air mail from St. Pete to Tampa, along with passengers, according to a museum exhibit I saw last summer. International mail contracts supported Pan Am and other airlines in their early days. And so on.

 

[Chris F]

So, what color are you getting??

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Yellow!!!

 

[WilliamH]

So, what color are you getting??

My plan is Creamsicle unless they come out with a yellow like my '85 Cavalier RS.
Easier for other people to see me. Although a nice Dupont Imron Lime Yellow would also be good.