What Is The Latest Start Production Date?

[RSchneider]

I'm reading a lot of words about what won't work and why it won't work. Does anyone have any words about what will work and how to do it.

First thing to do is for Elio to change his business plan. Obviously the current one is not working. Many businesses could be saved with a huge influx of cash but that's just a band aid solution and it's not the right direction for Elio. Paul can't keep standing out at an intersection with a sign, "Will build car for food" when what he really want's is money. You have to readjust the current model.

- First thing that needs to be known is how much money and timeline to get the car to production?
- What is the minimum amount of engineering cars that need to be built?
- Forget the 100 fleet as it's a waste of money because nobody is going to buy a pre production car and do your testing for you.
- What specifications can you back off on (i.e. 84 mpg, 90% NA content, crash rating, NVH, power door locks, electric windows, etc).
- Can this be built in a much smaller plant?
- Can we only start off with building 100/month and then increase from there?
- What should the real base price be?
- Can we build it with the only option being color (standardize where every car is the same and no options at all)?
- Can we use an existing driveline from something else (i.e. Mitsubishi Mirage)?
- Give up a certain amount of control and bring in an active partner who will work with you on day to day activities (a second opinion)?

I know that everyone can rip those suggestions all apart but there gets a point where if you don't change, you'll never make a product at all. Paul has been pushing this product for years and for a while it looked good with suppliers signing up, getting reservations, selling stock, being on TV and touting the product but the tide has turned and unless you turn the ship, you'll just run it aground. I see this with businesses where they had a successful business plan for a while yet the world changed around them and they watch their business go downhill because they won't swallow some pride and change. Compromise is not a bad thing but many fear it.

 

[Samalross]

First thing to do is for Elio to change his business plan. Obviously the current one is not working. Many businesses could be saved with a huge influx of cash but that's just a band aid solution and it's not the right direction for Elio. Paul can't keep standing out at an intersection with a sign, "Will build car for food" when what he really want's is money. You have to readjust the current model.

- First thing that needs to be known is how much money and timeline to get the car to production?
- What is the minimum amount of engineering cars that need to be built?
- Forget the 100 fleet as it's a waste of money because nobody is going to buy a pre production car and do your testing for you.
- What specifications can you back off on (i.e. 84 mpg, 90% NA content, crash rating, NVH, power door locks, electric windows, etc).
- Can this be built in a much smaller plant?
- Can we only start off with building 100/month and then increase from there?
- What should the real base price be?
- Can we build it with the only option being color (standardize where every car is the same and no options at all)?
- Can we use an existing driveline from something else (i.e. Mitsubishi Mirage)?
- Give up a certain amount of control and bring in an active partner who will work with you on day to day activities (a second opinion)?

I know that everyone can rip those suggestions all apart but there gets a point where if you don't change, you'll never make a product at all. Paul has been pushing this product for years and for a while it looked good with suppliers signing up, getting reservations, selling stock, being on TV and touting the product but the tide has turned and unless you turn the ship, you'll just run it aground. I see this with businesses where they had a successful business plan for a while yet the world changed around them and they watch their business go downhill because they won't swallow some pride and change. Compromise is not a bad thing but many fear it.

I think that you have very good points. The main disagreement would be an optional automatic transmission. Most people do no want standards, but adding a thousand to the base price to make it automatic would deter many buyers. I can buy a new Nissan Micra for 7480 US. Paying a thousand more for an automatic Elio would wipe out any gas savings.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

For your own sake, please examine your thought process. A post suggesting a funding option that has no possibility of working is a positive good thing. A post sharing mathematical financial reality is "trolling".

So do you have any other information that says Elio will not, 100% will not, go into production? Why are you even here? Are you here to say, "you shouldn't put any money down for the Elio because I [Bookly] think it is just a shame company?" How many of us actually read the agreement and understood the risk of putting money down? Have you ever down any investing? Do you know the risk of that? Do you know what risk even is?

 

[Bookly]

So do you have any other information that says Elio will not, 100% will not, go into production? Why are you even here? Are you here to say, "you shouldn't put any money down for the Elio because I [Bookly] think it is just a shame company?" How many of us actually read the agreement and understood the risk of putting money down? Have you ever down any investing? Do you know the risk of that? Do you know what risk even is?

I haven't stated any of the things you suggest. While there are those that state that Elio is a scam/sham, I'm not among them. I've even posted that I don't believe that.
I'm here because I think the car is appealing/fascinating. But the more I read about / peel back the onion on the company, it isn't so appealing. The business plan requires 200,000 plus three wheeled two person autos sold every year. Based on the funding challenges, I'm not the only person that sees that as an implausible plan. That doesn't make Elio a scam. But it isn't likely to happen under the current scenario.

RSchneider above writes above in this thread about how Elio could work if it adjusted its business plan to better fit economic reality. There are some great questions & points. Elio has a huge big challenge in doing that however: Its success in taking reservations. It has made 65,000 agreements to provide a car for about $7,000.

Is there a way forward? It's tough. It may require bankruptcy, to get out from under all those agreements. Hopefully, a more creative financial mind than mine can discover a different path.

I really do like the Elio car concept, but not the current business plan to create it.

 

[Doug McDow]

So do you have any other information that says Elio will not, 100% will not, go into production? Why are you even here? Are you here to say, "you shouldn't put any money down for the Elio because I [Bookly] think it is just a shame company?" How many of us actually read the agreement and understood the risk of putting money down? Have you ever down any investing? Do you know the risk of that? Do you know what risk even is?

This senile old man knew what he was doing when he offered up $100.00 all in, and when he raised it to $1000.00, and when he bought 600 shares of stock, and when he went all in again at $100.00. I fell in love with the Elio the first time that I saw a picture of it, and believe that I will be driving one in 2018.

 

[Rob Croson]

First thing to do is for Elio to change his business plan.

All the questions and ideas you have, have already been answered. You and I may not know the answer, but that doens't mean no one knows. The people who need to know, know. As much as it irks us, we just don't have the "need to know".

 

[3wheelin]

First thing to do is for Elio to change his business plan. Obviously the current one is not working. Many businesses could be saved with a huge influx of cash but that's just a band aid solution and it's not the right direction for Elio. Paul can't keep standing out at an intersection with a sign, "Will build car for food" when what he really want's is money. You have to readjust the current model.

- First thing that needs to be known is how much money and timeline to get the car to production?
- What is the minimum amount of engineering cars that need to be built?
- Forget the 100 fleet as it's a waste of money because nobody is going to buy a pre production car and do your testing for you.
- What specifications can you back off on (i.e. 84 mpg, 90% NA content, crash rating, NVH, power door locks, electric windows, etc).
- Can this be built in a much smaller plant?
- Can we only start off with building 100/month and then increase from there?
- What should the real base price be?
- Can we build it with the only option being color (standardize where every car is the same and no options at all)?
- Can we use an existing driveline from something else (i.e. Mitsubishi Mirage)?
- Give up a certain amount of control and bring in an active partner who will work with you on day to day activities (a second opinion)?

I know that everyone can rip those suggestions all apart but there gets a point where if you don't change, you'll never make a product at all. Paul has been pushing this product for years and for a while it looked good with suppliers signing up, getting reservations, selling stock, being on TV and touting the product but the tide has turned and unless you turn the ship, you'll just run it aground. I see this with businesses where they had a successful business plan for a while yet the world changed around them and they watch their business go downhill because they won't swallow some pride and change. Compromise is not a bad thing but many fear it.

Very well said.

 

[RSchneider]

You need to remember, I'm spelling out a scenario. I'm not giving compromises that must be done, just examples. I think that most can agree, the current business plan has actually not been working for a while. If it was, then the dozen or so timelines that Paul told the world would have had at least 80% of them met. As of now, it's around 0%.

I could see this scenario playing out:
1. Elio Motors declares bankruptcy
2. The plant assets are sold off or whatever clause Stu has (because you know he has one).
3. Intellectual property, tooling and cars are packaged up and sold off
4. Debts are paid (as good as they can)
5. All non refundable deposits are erased
6. All refundable deposits are paid back

Then Mr Blue who bought everything in #3 takes two weeks and uses a few engineers and a project manager to figure out where to go with what they bought. I could see this happening if I was Mr. Blue:
1. Forget the IAV engine and whatever transmissions were chosen.
2. Find a suitable off the shelf new up to date drivetrain that meets 50 state emissions (this is a good selling point because it's easy to do).
3. Forget the airbags because of the liability. Unless there's a federal spec for autocycles and airbags, then avoid that because of liability.
4. As for safety, make it according to any federal laws that apply (again liability).
5. Limited options to make initial assembly and line management lest costly.
6. Conform to the testing procedures that the motorcycle and other similar industries use (i.e. ATV's, trikes, etc).
7. Work out a deal with an existing motorcycle/motorsports manufacturer to distribute, sell and service the vehicle.
8. Build a new plant small that's not like that GM one which is old and bloated. If it wasn't, GM wouldn't have given it up. Locate it in SC, GA, TN or AL. They are really manufacturer friendly.

I know that the price will be higher, it won't get 84 mpg, not have airbags and 250K/year is not going to happen. What it will do is get them out into the market. Then when the cash flow starts working, you make the next version that will set an industry standard. That next version would be a hybrid.

Currently, others are already making electric trikes and soon, there will be a few more out there that others will want to buy. Waiting around for Elio to get an angel investor and the market becoming something that could easily turn into electric only is probably not the best thing to do. In 3-5 years a two passenger trike just might be able to make it 400 miles on a tank of electric. At that point, no need for ICE. Then there's the Chinese that are so much about electric that they will be funding lots of R&D on energy storage. They want to get away from ICE and coal because of the growing problem they have on their hands.

In the end, the Elio is a great idea, it's just that it needs some major tweaks. Do that, then it'll be on the road. It might take a bankruptcy to get to that point. Hopefully that doesn't have to happen.

 

[3wheelin]

It's interesting how human nature works. It tests who and what percentage of the 65K + are the real hard core fans of the ELIO? I'm the kind of fan that still proudly wears my team's jersey even if they had a losing season! Others move on and cheer on another team. But I do applaud both opposing teams when they made a good play. I'm open minded, it's much easier for my old ticker to handle. It's almost stress free! Getting too upset when reading other's post of doom and gloom is not healthy. I'm still all in for one and want in for another. But my life does not revolve around ELIO so I'm open to other companies who can score a touch down so I can have my 3wheeler!
On a side note, how much faith does one have on PE that if he gets his ATVM loan he can actually start building and sending units to the customers by next year 2018??? If all 65K + are trusting enough to send their checks to PE for the full purchase amount, say $7,000 x 65K (just to simplify things), that's 455 mil. and change- I think it should be enough to get ELIOs rolling out the assembly lines.

 

[W. WIllie]

If I could get a "guarantee" that my ELIO would be delivered on an exact date, I would gladly send in the full amount due.
That would give me a motivation to live longer.