Fire Side Chat With Paul - 9 Sept

[Ty]

So an hour of chit chat, a lot of back patting, and all I heard that MIGHT be news was the P5 is coming 'soon' and SEC approval could happen in 4-6 weeks. Neither of those were actual facts, definitive milestones, just generalities. I really was hoping we could skip the back story and jump right to hard questions, but that certainly didn't happen. I knew we were hosed when the first question was "Tell us why you invented the Elio", I seriously doubt there were many viewing that livestream that haven't heard that multiple times already. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe repeating that is important. I wanted to know how this 25-30 million was the key, what it was going to enable to make the rest happen (ATVM approval? Big Angel Investor?) There were references to it re-energizing EM and their suppliers, and that's important, but we're throwing $30 million down a black hole if the other $150 million doesn't appear from somewhere.

He DID say the P5 would have the Elio motor and that it was already built.(the motor) That's close to being news.

 

[Ekh]

The fellow from Start Engine that you said "could sell ice cubes to Eskimos" is on the opposite end of the Paul Elio common guy persona. There needs to be a personality somewhere in the middle ground that I could actually feel comfortable with.

YOU don't need to be comfortable, but nine thousand or so investors DO need to be comfortable. I suspect you're right that somewhere between Paul's ultra-geek and Ron Miller's ultra-enthusiasm lies a safe middle course.

 

[Ekh]

He DID say the P5 would have the Elio motor and that it was already built.(the motor) That's close to being news.

I heard that slightly differently -- that they had the parts from the second "first" engine and were building it from those parts. Didn't hear that it was completed, but may just have missed that.

 

[JEBar]

He DID say the P5 would have the Elio motor and that it was already built.(the motor) That's close to being news.

Q: What’s the status of the P5? Will it have a new engine or was the engine “spared” and not tested to destruction last March?
A: EM actually build two engines to the same exact design. One was tested, though not to destruction (it was disassembled and all wear closely measured.) The second engine is being assembled from the second set of parts specifically for the P5. It is not the final production engine.

I can't help but wonder what will be the difference(s) in the P5 and the production engines

 

[slinches]

You all think Paul is an "ultra-geek"? Maybe I spend too much time around other engineers. He just seems like a normal intelligent guy to me. Actually I thought he even came off a bit over-rehearsed and salesman-like on a few answers, though his presentation skills could still stand some improvement (a few too many um's and ah's).

 

[Ekh]

I can't help but wonder what will be the difference(s) in the P5 and the production engines

It may be the double-lobe cam, or whatever they call the mechanism that allows for higher torque when called for. Someone more technical will doubtless put this better, but as I understand it when power is called for the cam moves slightly, moving the valve stem into a higher lift position, then moves back again when the load is reduced, thus preserving fuel economy at cruise and giving you oomph when accelerating. Someone please fix my explanation if it's too far off.

 

[JEBar]

It may be the double-lobe cam, or whatever they call the mechanism that allows for higher torque when called for. Someone more technical will doubtless put this better, but as I understand it when power is called for the cam moves slightly, moving the valve stem into a higher lift position, then moves back again when the load is reduced, thus preserving fuel economy at cruise and giving you oomph when accelerating. Someone please fix my explanation if it's too far off.

that's the way I understand it .... there was considerable discussion with conflicting reports as to if the first prototype engine had that feature or not

 

[Ekh]

that's the way I understand it .... there was considerable discussion with conflicting reports as to if the first prototype engine had that feature or not

If the P5 does not have that feature, that would be a really good reason NOT to submit it to performance testing as some have suggested. On the other hand, EM has said so often that the P5 has the IAV engine and official tranny, so explaining that gee, it's not QUITE the official engine may take some doing. You know for sure that jackass over at Gas2 will get it wrong.

 

[JEBar]

oh well, it should keep things interesting

 

[pistonboy]

It may be the double-lobe cam, or whatever they call the mechanism that allows for higher torque when called for. Someone more technical will doubtless put this better, but as I understand it when power is called for the cam moves slightly, moving the valve stem into a higher lift position, then moves back again when the load is reduced, thus preserving fuel economy at cruise and giving you oomph when accelerating. Someone please fix my explanation if it's too far off.

My understanding of the two step valve timing is this and someone correct me if I am wrong. Years ago, people would install high performance cams in their engine to increase power. The cam would cause the intake valve to open sooner and wider. The cam opening sooner would cause the intake and exhaust valves to both be open a small amount at the same time. This occurred because the intake valve started opening before the exhaust was completely closed. The intake valve also opened wider. The result was the engine had more power, but idled very roughly, was harder to start, and used a lot of gas. Under heavy load and high rpm, it would run smoothly though with much power. When there is no valve overlap, the engine has less power, but idles very smoothly, is easy to start, and uses less gas. The valve opening a smaller amount also reduces power.

My understanding is that the two step cam changes to the high performance profile when power is needed such as passing or flooring the accelerator. It switches to the cam lobe that makes it behave like the old fashioned high performance cam. The intake valve opens sooner, and overlaps the exhaust valve producing more power. But this only happens when peak power is needed.

All the rest of the time the lower profile cam is used where there is no valve overlap and the cam opens only a small amount. An advantage of the valve opening a small amount is that the air flowing through has to move through at a higher speed (because the opening is smaller). This high speed air causes the fuel and air to mix more thoroughly and combustion is cleaner producing less pollutants.

It actually is very simple. All it does is momentarily create the old fashioned high performance cam of years ago. This reminds me of the old saying: “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”