Momentum V134

[Rickb]

You guys talking about "long" commutes obviously don't live in Texas. 100 mile round trip commute is not unusual around here.

When someone is coming to visit us they ask how far we are. Our answer is "1 hour". They then say, "But you don't know where we're coming from!" Our answer is, "It doesn't matter. We're an hour from everywhere!"

I.C.E. as a primary vehicle for long commutes, Electric as a supplement for shorter around town trips. I.C.E.E.

 

[Neal]

You guys talking about "long" commutes obviously don't live in Texas. 100 mile round trip commute is not unusual around here.

When someone is coming to visit us they ask how far we are. Our answer is "1 hour". They then say, "But you don't know where we're coming from!" Our answer is, "It doesn't matter. We're an hour from everywhere!"

So very true....

 

[3wheelin]

My problem with the current crop of EVs isn't that their electric, but that the technology is too new. Reminds me of early computers and being on the bleeding edge. With every major manufacturer doing their own thing and doing the necessary improvements as time goes on, I fear that parts and service will become almost impossible to get after the vehicles are ten to fifteen years old. Batteries will probably be available but what about all the electronics that drive the wheels? What I see happening is that leasing will become the norm and all older vehicles will be scrapped. No used market at all. The Elio also concerns me about it's computer, but an aftermarket system might become available in the ten to fifteen year range. A different issue is with the length of the vehicles. Many of the new manufacturers are making/designing their vehicles relatively short compared to standard ones. The long wheelbase of the Elio should provide better stability, especially at highway speeds.

I totally share your concerns. I was so happy back then when cars are so easy to work with, lots of room to get my hands dirty- it's spark plugs, filter, oil filter, coolant (or plain water) and I can keep it goin' and goin'. Now, with all the electronics controlling the car, it's a scary thought that one part of it burns out, then it's a lonely wait for the tow truck! On the positive side, these gizmos have gotten better where we don't have to buy a new car every 4-5 years or until the warranty expires. Car buying specially with these start ups is a total gamble- with 3 wheels no less and no track records other than their fully tested prototypes. Having said that, these new trikes which will enter mass market production next year is worth risk taking only because of their low price! I wouldn't venture out there in the freeway at freeway speeds until I, the customer have totally tested it in our local streets even though it's backed by 80 miles top speed and 7-8 sec. to 60mph. Exciting times folks, those who love ICE can wait for the ELIO in 2019 barring any more funding issues. Those who love EV's for quiet, electrified driving experience and meets their daily commuting "range" will be happy to know that 2018 is their expected arrival. If I have to shell out 100K for an EV like Tesla, then I would be concerned about their batteries or electronics overtime like you...but at 12K- probably 15K out the door for a SOLO or ARCIMOTO, why wait longer for the fun when I can start sooner?

 

[Rickb]

I don't remember being that Grumpy when I used to put in that much mileage in my car...and I've done it for years! Oh well, the ELIO would be perfect for him 'cause it's also on a "slow process"

I totally share your concerns. I was so happy back then when cars are so easy to work with, lots of room to get my hands dirty- it's spark plugs, filter, oil filter, coolant (or plain water) and I can keep it goin' and goin'. Now, with all the electronics controlling the car, it's a scary thought that one part of it burns out, then it's a lonely wait for the tow truck! On the positive side, these gizmos have gotten better where we don't have to buy a new car every 4-5 years or until the warranty expires. Car buying specially with these start ups is a total gamble- with 3 wheels no less and no track records other than their fully tested prototypes. Having said that, these new trikes which will enter mass market production next year is worth risk taking only because of their low price! I wouldn't venture out there in the freeway at freeway speeds until I, the customer have totally tested it in our local streets even though it's backed by 80 miles top speed and 7-8 sec. to 60mph. Exciting times folks, those who love ICE can wait for the ELIO in 2019 barring any more funding issues. Those who love EV's for quiet, electrified driving experience and meets their daily commuting "range" will be happy to know that 2018 is their expected arrival. If I have to shell out 100K for an EV like Tesla, then I would be concerned about their batteries or electronics overtime like you...but at 12K- probably 15K out the door for a SOLO or ARCIMOTO, why wait longer for the fun when I can start sooner?

There are electronics in both I.C.E. and Electric vehicles to deal with. The good news for me is with the EV is perhaps has simpler electronics, fewer parts and assemblies to fail, and I won't need to get my hands dirty with plugs, filters, oil, coolant, gas...............only wash it off periodically.

 

[3wheelin]

There are electronics in both I.C.E. and Electric vehicles to deal with. The good news for me is with the EV is perhaps has simpler electronics, fewer parts and assemblies to fail, and I won't need to get my hands dirty with plugs, filters, oil, coolant, gas...............only wash it off periodically.

That makes them a 5 stars in my book! Simplified driving Rickb.

 

[Rob Croson]

Car buying specially with these start ups is a total gamble- with 3 wheels no less and no track records other than their fully tested prototypes.

Not to mention that "fully tested" is a relative term. Especially when these vehicles are not crash tested. That was one of the key points that I loved about EMs plans: Fully crash testing their vehicles prior to sales. Accidents happen. I've been in enough accidents, the vast majority of them through no fault of my own, to know that one day I *will* be in an accident in whatever car I drive. What will happen when one of those cute little Sondors EVs get rear-ended? Will the crumple zones hold up? Or will that fully exposed rear wheel end up getting shoved through your back? Who knows, because, so far as I know, Sondors plans on making full use of the fact that "it's a motorcycle", and not doing any of that testing to make sure that their vehicles are actually, you know, safe to drive.

 

[RSchneider]

There are electronics in both I.C.E. and Electric vehicles to deal with. The good news for me is with the EV is perhaps has simpler electronics, fewer parts and assemblies to fail, and I won't need to get my hands dirty with plugs, filters, oil, coolant, gas...............only wash it off periodically.

EV's are much simpler and even in the electronics department. Just Elio engine comprises of many more parts than a complete driveline on an EV. The Engine computer has to drive 3 coils, 3 injectors, EGR, a throttle motor, the servo for the cam, fuel pump and cooling fan. It also needs info from two O2 sensors, oil temp, water temp, knock sensor, maf, crank speed sensor, throttle pedal and oil pressure switch. An EV has to drive the motor, battery cooling system and receive info from the battery, motor temp, motor shaft speed. Then most only consist of two gears in the differential. Since we've been making electric motors in all shapes and sizes longer than we've made ICE, I'd suspect we got that down pretty well when it comes to manufacturing.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Not to mention that "fully tested" is a relative term. Especially when these vehicles are not crash tested. That was one of the key points that I loved about EMs plans: Fully crash testing their vehicles prior to sales. Accidents happen. I've been in enough accidents, the vast majority of them through no fault of my own, to know that one day I *will* be in an accident in whatever car I drive. What will happen when one of those cute little Sondors EVs get rear-ended? Will the crumple zones hold up? Or will that fully exposed rear wheel end up getting shoved through your back? Who knows, because, so far as I know, Sondors plans on making full use of the fact that "it's a motorcycle", and not doing any of that testing to make sure that their vehicles are actually, you know, safe to drive.

You do recall EM started out with indicating a 5 star rating (whatever that represented for an autocycle ) now it's concerns about "safety"
Me, I think it's safer than a MC, but way, way un-safer then being in a car.

 

[Rickb]

Not to mention that "fully tested" is a relative term. Especially when these vehicles are not crash tested. That was one of the key points that I loved about EMs plans: Fully crash testing their vehicles prior to sales. Accidents happen. I've been in enough accidents, the vast majority of them through no fault of my own, to know that one day I *will* be in an accident in whatever car I drive. What will happen when one of those cute little Sondors EVs get rear-ended? Will the crumple zones hold up? Or will that fully exposed rear wheel end up getting shoved through your back? Who knows, because, so far as I know, Sondors plans on making full use of the fact that "it's a motorcycle", and not doing any of that testing to make sure that their vehicles are actually, you know, safe to drive.

Both Arcimoto and EMV mentioned plans for independent crash testing their vehicles. Canada actually requires crash testing for certification. Frankly, I don't expect any of the narrow three wheelers will rate many stars for safety FUV, SONDORs, or Elio, but they will be the safest motorcycle options.

The FUV sits high and is visible and also provides the driver with exceptionally good visibility. It may be agile and fast enough for the driver to react and avoid certain accident scenarios.

 

[Rob Croson]

You do recall EM started out with indicating a 5 star rating (whatever that represented for an autocycle ) now it's concerns about "safety"

Yes, I do remember that. And that they can't claim a "5 star" since they cannot actually run some of the tests required for that rating. Also, the NHTSA has in the past few years started to tighten up and add additional requirements for 5-star ratings. This will require certain equipment that the Elio just doesn't have, or at least wont have as standard, like specific styles of headlights, auto-braking and collision avoidance systems, pedestrian auto-braking, etc.

Both Arcimoto and EMV mentioned plans for independent crash testing their vehicles.

Great. The safer they are, the better for everyone. One of my bigger concerns for three-wheeler acceptance in general is that some fly-by-night company takes advantage of all the loopholes they can find to make a fast buck selling some cheap death trap, giving three-wheelers in general a bad reputation. As soon as that first fatal accident occurs, and we all know it will, there will be a lot of scrutiny on things. And the more loopholes that are used to get something on the road, the greater pressure there will be for regulation, which is bound to be over-reactive and far too heavy handed.