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My Elio Alternate Project Is Underway.

84mpg

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Will the engine's radiator get enough air flow?? I'm not seeing a grill, just some area at the bottom for air flow.
The headlights and turn signal pods look like they take up a lot of real estate on the front facia/nose area, just wondering how much air is needed to cool the engine's radiator.
Probably not an issue for most people, but I'm in the desert -- we routinely see temps over 110 degrees (Fahrenheit)
Sounds like he's just practicing/experimenting with the Bora's front end. Highly doubt he's using it for the finished product.
Rest assured that Mark will make the finished front end work as it should.
 

Velhartice

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Over the next week or 2, I am going to try a narrowed VW Bora/Jetta nose for size.

This doesn't mean that's what I am using, it's just that I have a Bora going to waste in the factory, so I can try it out, and get practice in for narrowing a nose, rather than buying new panels and doing it wrong.

The Bora is actually one of my favorite car noses, and the nose panels are highly sort after by VW Mk4 Golf owners as they bolt straight on. They then call them "Bolfs" by the way, Google it if you don't believe me
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View attachment 25709

Added red one with racing stripes for the rev-heads ...

View attachment 25708
Im also a fan of that generation Jetta as well in terms of aesthetics.
 

Joshua Caldwell

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Will the engine's radiator get enough air flow?? I'm not seeing a grill, just some area at the bottom for air flow.
The headlights and turn signal pods look like they take up a lot of real estate on the front facia/nose area, just wondering how much air is needed to cool the engine's radiator.
Probably not an issue for most people, but I'm in the desert -- we routinely see temps over 110 degrees (Fahrenheit)
Air intakes only started getting huge recently and only for the design appearance of being more "macho". Late 90's and early 00's cars barely had any front intakes. A friend still has a vehicle from those years, and they got most of their air from something underneath directing airflow up... she only found out about it when that physically broke from running over a large cement block and the car started overheating.
 

AriLea

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Air intakes only started getting huge recently and only for the design appearance of being more "macho". Late 90's and early 00's cars barely had any front intakes. A friend still has a vehicle from those years, and they got most of their air from something underneath directing airflow up... she only found out about it when that physically broke from running over a large cement block and the car started overheating.
The rule of thumb I learned was that 1/6th the square area of the radiator forward facing surface is the minimum required, provided that ducting provides laminar flow. i.e no turbulations or vortexes induced into the flow. And assuming mostly a single channel, and not a narrow slot. So fancy substancial grill work could force more area to be required.

And assuming the radiator was well designed and not oversized. Used with ambient temps under 110f (43c). But then you have to consider the situation of sitting at the stop-light on a hot day..., etc etc.

Most common applications might be 1/2 the area required, at minimum. I don't think many have been less than that. Traditionally, they just go full size, with fancy grill work.

I think the p51 Mustang is a good example of a small mouth serving a larger radiator (but at 300mph ? ).
 
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Mark BEX

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The rule of thumb

Indeed, but all useless if the air has no where to go.

I have seen woolen tufts on on an overheating race car, flow FORWARDS out of the front grille 'mouth' at over 100mph as so much pressure was building up in the engine bay. One mistake he made was to lift the rear edge of the hood an inch, thinking air would escape there, not understanding that the base of the windscreen is one of the highest pressure areas on a car.

I think the p51 Mustang is a good example of a small mouth serving a larger radiator (but at 300mph ? ).

One of the best examples, brilliant design, and there's some excellent writeups about how that works on the net.
 
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AriLea

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Indeed, but all useless if the air has no where to go.
Well that does answer the details of one story.

One squadcar in Arizona(of many similar events), he had to sit on the street-side mid-day at 120f (49c). And of course he needed his AC to be on. So he opened his hood up, but not past the second latch.

Suddenly he had to give chase, with no time to latch the hood fully. He caught the guy, but just as he stopped, the squadcar broke down, from over-heating.
So they figured that an open hood doesn't work so well for the car chasing. Sitting a running car at 120f, isn't optimal either, but they are stuck with that sometimes. They did not resolve if the excess sitting or the cracked-open hood was the primary problem for a chase car.

So from that point on, when the ambient temp is high, and they have to park at some position, they typically set up two cars, one to chase. The chase car is kept in motion. Which is easy around here, there is always something demanding a mobile police presence.

I don't know if the experience was with rear or forward latches, but given the oddball flow-dynamics, either could be a problem.

I don't know if they have that problem with more modern SUV's they drive now. But I would not chalenge it.
 
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Joshua Caldwell

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The rule of thumb I learned was that 1/6th the square area of the radiator forward facing surface is the minimum required, provided that ducting provides laminar flow. i.e no turbulations or vortexes induced into the flow. And assuming mostly a single channel, and not a narrow slot. So fancy substancial grill work could force more area to be required.

And assuming the radiator was well designed and not oversized. Used with ambient temps under 110f (43c). But then you have to consider the situation of sitting at the stop-light on a hot day..., etc etc.

Most common applications might be 1/2 the area required, at minimum. I don't think many have been less than that. Traditionally, they just go full size, with fancy grill work.

I think the p51 Mustang is a good example of a small mouth serving a larger radiator (but at 300mph ? ).
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Sonoran Sam

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Used with ambient temps under 110f (43c). But then you have to consider the situation of sitting at the stop-light on a hot day..., etc etc.
Yes -- one day I was stuck in traffic on my motorcycle, when the ambient temperature hit 118(F). As I crept along in traffic, I kept watching the engine temperature climb and climb. When the engine hit 243(F) the temp reading started flashing. I threw in the towel, got off the highway and headed to a bar to cool down & re-hydrate. After a few hours the sun set and traffic eased, so I went home.
 

Mark BEX

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. So he opened his hood up, but not past the second latch.

Suddenly he had to give chase, with no time to latch the hood fully.

Seems simple, air chooses the easiest path, in through the large gap over the top of the radiator, and pressurising the engine bay, so none is going through the radiator which is of higher resitance. Many cars have a rubber sealing strip along the front edge of the bonnet, or on top of the radiator upper support frame to prevent just that.
 
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