Sondors Electric Car

[johnsnownw]

You comparing apples to oranges. Motorcycle business is different than selling a 3 wheeler. Everyone knows what a motorcycle is, but the Arcimoto does look like an overgrown golf cart. In the end, that will be a hard image to overcome. I suspect that there will be great demand in the beginning and then it'll drop off. As long as Arcimoto is set up for making a certain amount (let's say 10K/year) and they can sell them all, then they got a good business plan. If they think they can make 100K/year and sell them, I'd not believe in that plan at all. It seems that they are on the right track and they should stick with it. Just don't become a cheerleader and make every milestone in the timeline as cause for major celebration or think that there will be some sort of major sales jump because the American public has all of a sudden changed their buying habits overnight.

In the world of engineering and project management, early celebration is a guarantee for failure.

I mean, I think these are going to be relatively low volume at first, as with anything that is carving out a market. However, I believe Elio's plan requires them to sell 250k/yr to meet their stated price point...and I'm not sure the challenges are much different.

 

[RSchneider]

Actually the challenges are different. For Elio, it's literally building a car like everyone else does but you are trying to do it for your first product. For a company like Arcimoto, they are building a product no different than Yamaha, Polaris, Suzuki etc. It's a much simpler design with less quality control and subsystems to deal with. Thus, they can do it at the rate which a company like Polaris does when they build those 4 wheelers that people hunt with or use on a farm. As for Elio, they are making their vehicle just like any cheap car you can buy today (unibody, steel body, FWD, HVAC, airbags etc..). Elio will have to worry about things like body panel fitment, glass, leaks, interior fitment and paint as to where Arcimoto has much more leniency.

Honestly, a Polaris 2 or 4 seat General is more complex to build over an Arcimoto. I have driven and looked over a Polaris General and that thing is designed to take a beating. If they just took it, eliminated the 100hp 2 cylinder engine, the complete 4wd system and replaced it with a fwd electric unit and changed the rear axle to a simple one wheel unit, lowered it, they'd have an Arcimoto but just side by side. They could literally take the 4 passenger unit and cut 12" out of the width and put the steering wheel in the middle and have a copy of an Arcimoto.

If the Arcimoto takes off like crazy, expect to see Polaris crank out their version in 6 months and undercut them on price.

 

[Sailor Dog]

Speaking as an FUV investor, we won’t be able to keep up with the demand of our direct to consumer made to order sales model. Market acceptance of a three wheeler commuter is about to be proven.

Honestly, a Polaris 2 or 4 seat General is more complex to build over an Arcimoto. I have driven and looked over a Polaris General and that thing is designed to take a beating. If they just took it, eliminated the 100hp 2 cylinder engine, the complete 4wd system and replaced it with a fwd electric unit and changed the rear axle to a simple one wheel unit, lowered it, they'd have an Arcimoto but just side by side. They could literally take the 4 passenger unit and cut 12" out of the width and put the steering wheel in the middle and have a copy of an Arcimoto.

If the Arcimoto takes off like crazy, expect to see Polaris crank out their version in 6 months and undercut them on price.

...BTW...Paul Elio on ABC15 Phoenix...discussed status of 2019 production!!!...& non refundable meaning nonrefundable.

 

[Sniffy]

You comparing apples to oranges. Motorcycle business is different than selling a 3 wheeler. Everyone knows what a motorcycle is, but the Arcimoto does look like an overgrown golf cart.

More like apples to pears. As an active motorcyclist, I consider the Arcimoto to be an electric motorcycle. The folks at Arcimoto have not minced words, they explicitly indicate that their product is a motorcycle.

I would be shocked if demand for the Arcimoto ever exceeds 10K per year. The market to me, seems like it would be the same as the Zero/Empulse market, plus a small crossover percentage of the automobile market.

 

[Rob Croson]

More like apples to pears. As an active motorcyclist, I consider the Arcimoto to be an electric motorcycle. The folks at Arcimoto have not minced words, they explicitly indicate that their product is a motorcycle.

The SRK is not a motorcycle in any sense other than the printing on the title. They will not be sold or marketed as a motorcycle. No one who goes looking to buy a motorcycle will pick up an SRK and proudly take it to the next poker run. "Hey man, take a look at my new bike!"

And of course the folks at Arcimoto are going to claim it's a motorcycle. Legally, they have to call it a motorcycle. That's the only way they can sell the thing.

 

[Rob Croson]

However, I believe Elio's plan requires them to sell 250k/yr to meet their stated price point...and I'm not sure the challenges are much different.

IIRC the key number was 125k/year in order to meet the economies of scale they need to hit the target price. Yes, that's still a lot of vehicles. They 250k/year was what I think they said they could get out of the production line running full tilt with two shifts. An obvious goal, but not required.

 

[Sniffy]

The SRK is not a motorcycle in any sense other than the printing on the title. They will not be sold or marketed as a motorcycle. No one who goes looking to buy a motorcycle will pick up an SRK and proudly take it to the next poker run. "Hey man, take a look at my new bike!"

LOL! Very true!

However, the crowd that I find myself running with every day, the Seattle moto-commuting crowd, will fall over themselves for the Arcimoto. It presses all the right buttons. But that crowd is infinitesimal compared to the cager crowd, or even the weekend motorcyclist crowd.

I have a commuter/touring Honda that will be sold once the Arcimoto arrives. My "real" bike will continue to stay in the garage except for tours and weekend poker runs.

 

[Rickb]

More like apples to pears. As an active motorcyclist, I consider the Arcimoto to be an electric motorcycle. The folks at Arcimoto have not minced words, they explicitly indicate that their product is a motorcycle.

I would be shocked if demand for the Arcimoto ever exceeds 10K per year. The market to me, seems like it would be the same as the Zero/Empulse market, plus a small crossover percentage of the automobile market.

The market is so not the same as the Zero market. Take a look at the market demographics and various age groups test driving/riding the FUV with ear to ear grins on their faces. I’m a prime example of that broad ranged demographic, 70 year old guy that WOULDN’T CONSIDER buying a Zero electric motorcycle, but only the FUV, considering it to be the safest enclosed or open motorcycle on the planet. I predict well beyond 10K units per year pendiing broad market acceptance of any three wheeler commuter motorcycle, autocycle, or autoscooter.

 

[Rickb]

Actually the challenges are different. For Elio, it's literally building a car like everyone else does but you are trying to do it for your first product. For a company like Arcimoto, they are building a product no different than Yamaha, Polaris, Suzuki etc. It's a much simpler design with less quality control and subsystems to deal with. Thus, they can do it at the rate which a company like Polaris does when they build those 4 wheelers that people hunt with or use on a farm. As for Elio, they are making their vehicle just like any cheap car you can buy today (unibody, steel body, FWD, HVAC, airbags etc..). Elio will have to worry about things like body panel fitment, glass, leaks, interior fitment and paint as to where Arcimoto has much more leniency.

Honestly, a Polaris 2 or 4 seat General is more complex to build over an Arcimoto. I have driven and looked over a Polaris General and that thing is designed to take a beating. If they just took it, eliminated the 100hp 2 cylinder engine, the complete 4wd system and replaced it with a fwd electric unit and changed the rear axle to a simple one wheel unit, lowered it, they'd have an Arcimoto but just side by side. They could literally take the 4 passenger unit and cut 12" out of the width and put the steering wheel in the middle and have a copy of an Arcimoto.

If the Arcimoto takes off like crazy, expect to see Polaris crank out their version in 6 months and undercut them on price.

The more three wheeler competition the merrier. It means the market is proven. Keep in mind the same scenario for EM if Elio took off like crazy. Competition is good for the commuting public.

 

[Sniffy]

I predict well beyond 10K units per year pending broad market acceptance of any three wheeler commuter motorcycle, autocycle, or autoscooter.

If I were a betting man, I'd take you up on a wager. But having said that, I'd truly prefer to see your prediction become reality.